Then I’m shocked they’d have even short-term success if the middle class is in the process of plummeting to its doom.
And it’s interesting that another poster thinks that restaurant chains must be recognizable “post-church service destinations” to qualify as successful in appealing to middle class tastes.
Apparently that meme about the dying middle class dies hard. :dubious:
Assuming you are talking about me, it seems you missed my point. Your comparison to Little Caeser’s to Red Lobster doesn’t make sense because one is a take-out joint for people who are looking for the cheapest pizza they can find. Whereas Red Lobster has historically been the place where the family goes after church, or where you take Grammy on her 80th birthday.
As long as there are broke college kids, Little Caeser’s is going to have plenty of business. It’s not a good bellweather of anything.
Why would you think it interesting that restaurants should recognize customer buying habits? Seems like the 1st rule of business to me.
I’m not sure about Jackmannii’s particular list, but I have trouble understanding how anyone could deny that middle class eateries as a group are doing fine. There’s a ZILLION restaraunt chains doing just fine around here - Milestones, Boston Pizza, Lone Star Cafe, Montana’s, Kelsey’s. Anywhere I go in the USA there’s a TGI Friday’s and places like that.
Red Lobster has declined precipitously around here for the very reason cited already; the value proposition is terrible. They’re charging mid-level restaurant chain prices for food that is, IMHO, inferior to almost every mid level chain.
Talking about class consciousness is really, really overthinking it. The class division thing isn’t nearly as pronounced here in Canada, but we have a similar restaurant market and Red Lobster is falling like a rock (lobster.) The reason is simple; their food just isn’t worth the money. It once was but there’s ten times as many options as there used to be, and RL has never changed.
I’m gonna guess it’s the Cheddar Bay biscuits. 
I like RL okay–we don’t go there much anymore because there are a lot of other places in our area (San Jose) that are more desirable–good cheap places if we want good cheap food, or nicer places if we want nicer food. It just doesn’t seem all that appealing to spend $50-60 on a mid-quality dinner for two, especially since IMO RL isn’t as good as they even used to be. There are a lot of other places I’d choose for that $50 (or usually less).
I just noticed that the RL closest to us is remodeling, though, at least on the outside. They seem to be going for a more “upscale” look–more understated logo, and more adult-looking colors that make them look less like an upscale fast-food place. I wonder if it’ll help.
The point behind bringing up places like Chipotle is not that they fill the same niche. It’s that access to good food has improved massively over the past decade. It used to be that on the low end, all you could get was fast-food or diner offerings. Now, even on the fast food side of things, you can get meals with fresh vegetables, sustainable sourcing, and real attention put in the favoring. The mid-range has everything from delicious ethnic restaurants to locally run foodie cafes, even in the deep suburbs. On the high end, celebrity chef culture has moved far beyond Paul Prodomme, and there are unique, fashionable places everywhere. Our expectations of “fine dining” have changed.
I looked at my local Red Lobster menu, and the combos run $20-$30. That is edging into steakhouse prices, for Applebees food. The “light” menu is a joke- just plain grilled fish (tilapia, salmon or trout) with a lemon and some steamed broccoli on the side. In a world of delicious fish curries, ceviche, and grilled octopus, what is the excuse for that? The deserts are a brainless cast of straight-from-Sysco sugar bombs, with no thought put in to them. The selections of sides are straight from the fanciest dinner party of 1985-- overcooked “vegetable medly,” wild rice, or your choice of three types of potatoes.
When I can now go down the street to whole foods and get what is likely better quality seafood, what’s the point?
If RL wants to stay in business, they need to freshen up the decor- bring in some light and make it look a bit like grandpa’s faux-nautical den. Broaden the menu to include either more European or regional American dishes, and maybe some more exotic offers. Lessen the emphasis on deep frying and butter, and make a big deal about sustainable sourcing. Of course, not everyone cares about sustainable sourcing, but it makes a restaurant seem more modern.
Little Caesar’s is about as low end as you can get. Their entire schtick is that they sell a whole pizza ready to walk out the door for $5. This isn’t quality dining.
I agree that Red Lobster doesn’t feel like a fair trade in cost vs value when I go (which hasn’t been for a while for the same reason) but I also think it’s become a “thing” to hate on the place. Same with Olive Garden. I don’t love Olive Garden or anything but people react as though you suggested a plate full of scorpions when the name comes up. Both Red Lobster and Olive Garden give (in my mind) a rather outsized negative reaction to places that may not be great but aren’t any worse than a bunch of other places. Mention either of them and someone has to say how terrible they are. This may help become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
What are you talking about? Zaxby’s is a fast food place that serves fried chicken fingers and the like, Little Caesar’s is a value-priced pizza chain (relative to Papa John’s and Pizza Hut), Wingstop, at least around here (DFW, where they’re headquartered), markets to the black and hispanic populations, Jimmy John’s is cheap and fast sub sandwiches, and Firehouse Subs is sub sandwiches.
All of them are distinctly low-end. Maybe not low-end as in a taqueria in an old Dairy Queen, or a chicken and catfish place with a crudely hand-painted sign, but as national chains go, low-end.
I assumed the primary point of going out for dinner was the “going out” part.
Agreed with your main point though. Looking at my local RL’s menu, dinner combos start at $18 for a pretty unappetizing looking “Broiled Seafood Trio”. You can go as low as $13.50 for a half order of pasta or a few pieces of chicken though. On the high end, $37 bucks for the NY Strip and Lobster Tail makes me think you should be dropping $40 an entree at a better place; I just don’t trust Red Lobster to give me a worthwhile $40 entree experience.
No one’s mentioned that they fired all their busboys and overworked their waitresses? I can’t imagine how terrible service is now. WhyNot’s logistical and food supply “cheapening” seems right in line with that.
Red Lobster is failing the same reason Circuit City failed. A very poor managerial response to a changing market.
I know what you are talking about, but I think the “thing” developed because people realized that the only justification for the higher prices at RL and OG (compared to mid-range chains) is that they had managed to market themselves as something “special” to people without the sophistication to recognize that that wasn’t true. Loudly rejecting OG and RL is basically asserting that you haven’t fallen for that particular scam.
I have no experience with Red Lobster, but Olive Garden is the victim of operating in an oversaturated market. I don’t know what it’s like in the rest of the country, but you can’t throw a rock in western New York without hitting a dozen good Italian places. Many of them cheaper than Olive Garden. Olive Garden’s food has also gone downhill in the last few years as well. I remember a decade ago it being on par with most of the local places and I went there regularly. That hasn’t been true for a long time and the last time I went was for an Easter family gathering exactly a year ago.
I think reinventing themselves wouldn’t hurt, but it doesn’t sound like the corporate attitude is behind it. I’d hammer away about sustainable sourcing and play up whatever eco-friendliness the advertising guys can get away with.
Yes and no. Back in the day, inland supermarkets didn’t stock much in the way of seasfood, and RL was one of the only ways to eat seafood that wasn’t fish sticks.
For comparison, here is the seafood menu for one of our neighborhood bistros:
$27.00 – Shad roe & filet, mushroom, rosti potato & lemon demi-glace
$23.00 – Crispy rainbow trout, green papaya & aji amarillo slaw, passionfruit
$25.00 – Salmon, lightly smoked, butternut squash, savoy cabbage, chorizo
$25.00 – Dorade royale, fennel, piperade, picholine, rouille
$25.00 – Roasted seabream, spinach, mussel & saffron velouté
And for the less adventurous there are hamburgers, pastas and risottos. Same prices as RL, but about a million times tastier.
I don’t remember that being the case but I suppose the situation in Chicago suburbia was different than the situation in Champaign, IL. And, yeah, I know there’s a big lake here but I’m counting it as “inland” in that you’re not harvesting oceanic seafood from Lake Michigan. Anyway, I’m happy to accept that it was more limited away from city.
I like your decor suggestions though. When I think of seaside or the shore, I’m thinking lots of natural light and an open airy feel. As you said, Red Lobster feels like a heavily wood paneled den decorated with nautical crap. I’m thinking lots of skylights and high windows. A modern wood and glass look and maybe lower down you could do a sand and (artificial) beach grass thing along the walls. Basically as “ocean side” as you can make it look without the view being spoiled by the mall parking lot.
As a person who works in the world of marketing and advertising, do I think that anything can be done to save RL?
No.
The problem is that RL is in a damned if it does, damned if it doesn’t position. It will die if it doesn’t reboot, but it will also encounter big problems if it does reboot:
Implausible options
• If it simply tries to offer what it does now for less money, it won’t attract new customers but it will be leaving money on the table from its current clientele. Definitely impossible. Needless to say, trying to charge more money from current offerings won’t work either.
• It could try to reboot downward–changing its menu to less expensive but different fare and charging less–won’t work either, since it has to remain a “sit-down restaurant” if it is to continue to use its current locations.
Plausible (but still doomed-to-fail) options
• It could try to reboot sideways: staying essentially the same but just doing everything better. Spiffing up the menu while maintaining the same basic price point. I think this is an automatic loser because chains like Bonefish already deliver better food for either similar or slightly higher prices. RL’s price structure is, in essence, a historical accident. It was (one may speculate) designed as “fancy but affordable” food in the late 60s when seafood was hard to get in many places and seen as somewhat exotic and definitely premium food. Now, however, you have seafood at every price point at every kind of restaurant (fish tacos from the truck, salmon at chain restaurants, sea bass at fancier joints, etc.), and RL’s value-for-money doesn’t look good. It is essentially charging too much for what it offers, so sideways is a no-go.
• It could try to reboot upward: becoming a truly excellent seafood restaurant and charging more for its product. This is impossible too, since the brand is tainted, and there are already excellent competitors.
No, there is no hope. Darden wants to sell off RL, but the company that buys it doesn’t have to try to “save” it. Rather, a buyer could just run RL as a dying cash cow, doing the same thing, maybe with such improvements as do not require that big an investment. The understanding would be that it would try to maintain the current clientele as long as possible and gradually shut down locations as they become less profitable. In this way, the chain could remain in existence for quite a few more years. It’s not a very fun or exciting way to run a business, and it’s risky, so Darden may not find a buyer and may have to execute this strategy itself. It’s also possible that the chain is in freefall and will be dead within a few years. I’d have to look at the numbers.
Mmm…
Good analysis. Some fresher minds inside RL might make something happen.
I could see catering and mobile food trucks working for RL if they marketed it correctly. It would require some husstle on the part of management, though, and they are probably too used to sitting on their fat asses.
I like Red Lobster, but admittedly, I’m going in for the Cajun Chicken (and the biscuits). I’ve generally had good to excellent service.
The last time I ate at RL I ordered some kind of chilled seafood salad–this was maybe 15 years ago–it arrived frozen. I never went back. Ditto for a number of other chain restaurants which I’ve had other food issues at. I don’t give them a second choice.
Strangely, as much as iHop and Applebee’s is on everyone’s hate list, they’re okay by me.
