Why is Satan often shown as having goatlike features?

Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
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This actually came about while Christianity was still trying to convert everyone on the planet. Most pagan civilizations were in the practice of worshipping a horned god. Greece had Pan. Celts had Cernunnos. In order to try to turn these “heathens” to the “righteous” path, they had to make them think that their horned god was really the personification of evil.

Consequently, the reason that Mary is worshipped in Catholic circles is due to similar reasons. While the Christians could turn the people’s heads from many gods to one god, they could not make the people believe that there was no goddess. The Catholics were forced to put Mary upon a pedestal in order to placate the masses.

But that is just my two cents.

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Incidentally, the URL this refers to is http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a990604a.html

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Dude, you ever been chased by a goat? Goats got issues, man. Goats bite.

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That’s not all they do! Ask Scylla.

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About Satan having goatlike features, consult Matthew 25:31ff:

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy 1angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, 1inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have 1done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Hope this excerpt might be pertinent.

Susma Rio Sep

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Sheep on the right hand, goats on the left…

Pretty simple allegory, if you spend a bit of time with either creature, sans previous judgement. Sheep: placid and well-behaved, herd in an easily managed flock, give a friendly warmth of wool to aid humans in seeking comfort during the cold months.

Goats: scurrillous, curious, boisterous and stinky during rut: they jump and dance for the hell of it, will butt you if you aren’t a part of their crowd. If you are perceived as part of the herd, they are very loyal, but they don’t have much patience outside of that. They also have a spatial intelligence that demands getting around any barriers, and up on top of the highest place available. Kind of a pain, pastorally.

To folks that were more tuned in due to neccessity of these characteristics, back onyond, a goat would signify all the natural world not controlled, and perhaps more of a pain to deal with in agricultural terms. The symbolism is pretty much simple observation. As Cecil said, I’d rather be a goat: the leaps for sheer cantankerous for the moment joy outweigh any herd safety.

Tom Robbins has a bit to say about this schism in many of his novels;Jitterbug Perfume, being the main one.

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Actually, what with the story having its home in a culture with a long and somewhat self-conscious pastoral tradition, I suspect there is no real particular meaning to the sheep and the goats at all. Could just as well be minivans and SUV’s or Dells and Gateways.

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John, have you ever observed the difference between the behavior of sheep and goats? It’s pretty immense.

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Yes, but there is no sustained use of the figure.

That’s all there is to it. And I am not aware of any traditional Christian symbolism dividing sheep and goats beyond explicit quotation of this particular pericope. Quite rightly, for Jesus does not, in general, use allegories; His parables make one single point alone.

Not to mention that the entire passage applies to human beings, not to angelic personages. (Shall we have to bring up the dead-people-are-not-angels thread again?)

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John, I’m replying about sheep and goats in light of my own observation of the animals, and I believe that’s the basis of the quote.

A shepherd would know that if you put the two together in pasture, the goats will mess with the sheep, causing chaos for the shepherd. This would probably be simple common sense to those at the time making a pastoral living. I do wonder about the right-left division, and think it based on the specific characteristics in my previous post.

Satan, in the portrayal we are most familiar with, is more goatlike than any other creature, as Cecil’s column says. I’d maintain that the characteristics of the old admired Pan, and consequent Satan, are based on simple observations of animal behavior. Not an allegory, but symbolic.

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My sister and her husband raised goats and sheep together in the same pasture for a number of years. The goats never messed with the sheep. The two herds kept to themselves. The only thing that messed with the sheep was the family dog that occasionally got into the pasture and attacked the lambs.

Never attacked the goats. Didn’t want to mess with the billy, perhaps.

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I was speaking of cultural facts not biblical mythology. Everyone knows that the bible itself can not be taken literally in every sense. It uses mostly metaphor to get it’s point across.

Also, none of that scripture that was quoted states that satan himself would be a goat-like creature.

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Hear, hear, lord_arach, and welcome to the SDMB. The connection in the Matthew verses is so tenuous that one could wish Cecil hadn’t brought it up.

[sub]However, even if he hadn’t, it probably wouldn’t have forestalled the passage from finding its way into this discussion here.[/sub]

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To: li’l Dickie Dirtz

I’ve generally found that a suspect family member was messing with the goats, eventually leading to the horned person.
The dog generally only humps a leg at best.

HTH

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Uh, yeah . . .

Nobody messed with the goats. The dog occasioanlly killed a lamb.

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I agree Kayladad but since he did bring it up, I thought a little debate was in order. :slight_smile:

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Scylla on goats - that thread I was looking for. :wink: