Why does it have to be a specifically “anti-smokers/all you smokers are evil, evil, evil” ordinance? Why can’t it just be a fairly straightforward “fire safety” issue? A lit cigarette is basically on fire. If you touch it to something flammable, like a chiffon skirt or a rayon scarf or a chenille sweater or a fleece sweatshirt, it sets it on fire. Not to mention hair, as in Big Hair. By the time you reach the top, 8 seconds later, the person who was unlucky enough to be standing in front of Mr. Not-Watching-What-He-Was-Doing may be badly burned. Why persist in interpreting this–to me–very sensible fire safety ordinance as some kind of discrimination against smokers?
Smoking is also banned on escalators in some places, where it looks to me like it’s a “fire safety” issue, too. Imagine the chaos ensuing on a crowded escalator with a dropped lit cigarette falling down on top of someone with Big Hair.
There are already ordinances banning public smoking in the mall; why add another one singling out escalators? Answer–because it’s a fire safety issue.
Found a list of Canadian provinces and their non-smoking bylaws. The earliest date I can find is 1973, for North York in Ontario, which was well before the huge anti-public-smoking campaign began. There are a number of other 1970s dates, and a lot of 1980s dates, which was still well before the massive “let’s ban all smoking in public places” movement in the 1990s. Again, it looks to me like it’s a fire safety issue, not a “smokers are evil so let’s punish them” issue.
We may never know without transcripts from the legislatures that crafted these laws. I suspect it’s akin to laws against spitting on the sidewalk – it’s disgusting to most people, and the smokers/spitters have plenty of leeway elsewhere, such as smoking anywhere but in the elevator (at the time the laws were enacted) and spitting in the street.
My goodness, you must be a young pup. Back before anyone even heard of a “non-smoking” building, there were always ashtrays next to the elevator doors so the smokers could extinguish before boarding.
Well, I must not get out much anymore, I do recall ashtrays near elevator doors in some hotels, and some major commercial buildings. But things are changing, and regarding Shrinking Violet, I am also in the fourth category that I so shamefully opted, and my apologies. I still can’t get over the fact that people are so worried about things catching fire in an elevator, i catch on fire all the time, and not ONCE has it been from a cigarette. Not to boast my own legitimacy but consider again about what i said about the legislature:"3. Non-smokers who loathe the substance and have had bad association with tobacco and family members/friends. and: “I think the “fire code” is synomonous with ‘legislative occupants who are type #3 on my list of people who ride elevators’ and just hate the smell of it and love their good ol’ virgin lungs.” And the more I think about it, and put myself in someone elses shoes, it is a disgusting habit. Take for example, today, I was eating lunch with a friend of mine who was eating hard boiled eggs…I abhor the smell of hard boiled eggs, and so i asked him to either eat really quick or i would have to leave. I guess it really follows along the guidlines of who is in what position of who is making the nucsance occur. Ok, once again off subject…big hair?!? what are we? in the 70’s? are we making vidal sassoon a monopolizing business? I think the real problem here is hair that has more volume than a Deep Purple concert. Not to sound rude and i’m sure someone will have something to say against this. Back ON subject, I think not smoking in an elevator is a good thing, since i am also on the recent addendum of #4 on the list of people who ride elevators, it really is just common courtesy. No fires, no big hair, it’s just because people don’t like it, simple as that.
A quick check of NFPA 101 - Life Safety Code and NFPA 72 - National Fire Alarm Code didn’t provide much information (though I only spent about 10 minutes looking).
Anyway, NFPA 101 requires ashtrays where smoking is allowed, and perhaps this isn’t high on the list of features a building owner wants in his elevators.
Apparantly the bottom of an elevator hoistway is a place where trash accumulates, and in the case of a hydraulic elevator, this can also be mixed with oil. It’s a slim chance, but a guess a cigarette butt could fall in the space between the elevator and the landing. Not a good place for a fire.
Additionally, some elevator hoistways can be equipped with smoke detectors (but not the cars themselves), and if the hoistway isn’t ventilated, I suppose smoke could accumulate to the point where the detector goes off, but that would take more than a few cigarettes.
Uh, I hate to break it to you, but somehow I don’t think your experiences represent those of most people. I am, however, quite curious as to how you manage to set yourself on fire on a regular basis.
Hey, I’ve seen people whose hair is still stuck in the '80s. Even if that wasn’t the case, people still use hairspray. Have you ever held a lighter in front of a can of that stuff and sprayed it? It looks like a damn flamethrower!
There’s also the issue of highly flammable clothing that you didn’t address. Also, not everyone has the reflexes or physical ability to put out a flaming head of hair or scarf. You may somehow manage to burst into flames every day, and thus be well-prepared to extinguish the blaze, but I’m pretty sure my 99-year old great-grandmother doesn’t share your cat-like reflexes and propensity for self-incineration.
Lastly, a request, if I may? Put paragraph breaks in your posts. It makes them much easier to read.
People used to smoke in elevators back in the day, I promise you. It really sucked. The “I’m the only one here” whiners (Declan) never thought of the possibility that the car might pick someone up at the next floor, I assume.
The signs in the elevators at work don’t say anything about any law, they just say “NO SMOKING”. Which makes it a rule of the owner, I guess. Anyway, smoking is prohibited in the entire building by law. I guess that covers it. So maybe there is no law specific to smoking in elevators.
People are discovering how nice it is not to have smoke around, so the restrictions will only get worse (better).
Brownshirt since 10/25/02.
Peace,
mangeorge
ok, neutron star, your request is taken, I apologize though, I am new with message boards, and am simply unfamiliar with the format in which i am to follow. But seriously, just because a man ‘somehow’ manages to catch on fire on a daily basis, he should still be taken seriously.
As for the large hair, I personally think that’s ridiculous. That should have been just plain eradicated from this planet. People are assuming that the smokers are the evil ones. Do people who use tons of hairspray not realize the health risk they are taking when they leave their house? Maybe people who smoke loathe the fact that they can’t light up in fear that some stranger may come too close and start to combust. Sure, go ahead, blame the victim…
But in all honesty, i do believe that the rules are for the safety of the population, but i am on the side of the spectrum that the rule is against, so i naturally stake out my position and attempt to defend it.
I, too, remember when you would encounter people who’d smoke in elevators in the US. And in Europe, it wasn’t even that long ago. Amazing. Simply amazing.
Till someone gets put up against a wall and shot ,but thats hypothethical
As to whining , nope not me ,its defacto now in pretty much everywhere i have seen , cept for mexico( acupulco and that may have changed since I was there a couple years ago)
I think that meant the word Nazi or Nazis , up until a certain time in the 30’s the brownshirts were a separate organization from the nationalist socialist party.
Up yours, Papermache Prince.
Now I’m going to have to find out what the hell “invoke a Godwin” means.
I found a Godwin, an english atheist back in the day, but I have no idea how to invoke him/her/it.
For the record, one need not use any hair products in order to have "large"hair, and because one does use potentially flammable hair products does not mean that they will also have large hair. The two have correlation but not causation. The mouse and gel used for very sleek, close 'dos and the moisturizing products used by those with very dry hair can present just as much of a fire hazard as a head full of aerosol Aqua Net super hold because almost all of them have some type of alcohol (or oil) in them.
But hair is pretty flammable in and of itself. It goes up quickly, smells awful, and burns to the scalp, neck and face can easily result. Mr. TeaElle’s sister died after she leaned too close to a candle, her hair ignited, the fire spread to her clothing and she received third degree burns to more than 60% of her body. Fire is no joke.
So, Declan, is it just that you don’t care about those who might get on the elevator at the next floor or after you’ve left, or that no one has called you on your unnecessary, antisocial behavior or what? I mean, can you present a single legitimate reason for smoking in elevators despite laws and regulations against doing so?
