ETA didn’t mean to disparage Si–there’s always a use for transpose, and I’d use it too if I was asked to make a hell-fire solo on a boogie in B natural. FWIW Reese Wynans used to transpose his digital piano and play the Hammond with another hand in the non-transposed key. Motherfucker, he was! Obviously, anybody can play in B, but when even Johnnie Johnson admits he hates playing in it, you can cut yourself some slack.
Thank you, Musicat!! 
Correct: those songs, although from the same era, were released in sheet music at a different time. i guess they were arranged by different people too.
Correct. Thanks for your correction!!
Crisanto
What do you mean by “legally copyrighted version” exactly? Legally speaking, it’s the work itself that is protected by copyright law, not any specific arrangement, so there is no “legally copyrighted version.” Essentially, the composition copyright applies to the words and the basic tune. The copyright extends to any composition that uses those, regardless of the key or any other specifying factors.
In obtaining a copyright registration certificate, you do have to “deposit” a copy of your work, but in the case of a composition, as I stated earlier, it’s only the lyrics and the basic melody that really count. Very often, what is deposited is a very bare-bones version of the song, and it need not be in any specific key or have any particular arrangement. It could even just be a lead sheet or tabs/chords.
Right, but the deposited copy has to be in some key, and this might be considered the “official” key. I would expect that the deposited sheet music is in the same key as the source/original recording.
OTOH, I just thought of how the opposite could happen. The songwriter makes a demo recording, it is sent to a lead sheet artist, who makes up a lead sheet. This is filed with the copyright office. Meanwhile, a studio recording is being made for commercial release, and for any of a number of reasons, it is being played in a different key. Since the publisher isn’t going to refile just because the key is different, this could explain the discrepancy.
There is no reason, legal or otherwise, to make this assumption. In fact, I’d say that there’s no such thing as an “official” key in popular/folk music (as opposed to classical music, in which the key is quite often specified in the title of the work).
There’s no basis for such an expectation. Especially in the case of modern popular music, the composers themselves often have no interest or training in written music. The transcription is done by publishing company lackeys who write it out in whatever key suits them at the time.
Yes, this is common.
I’m just astounded by what the Internet considers level of effort. I tried finding an easy/cheat version of the Blackbird chords and got examples with like twenty different obscure chords to learn. And the little difficulty meter is set at one bar out of five (beginner). I don’t think so. Guess I won’t be learning that song any time soon.
We’re just talking semantics here. If you want to consider the deposit copy official or unofficial, I have no problem either way.
However, the deposit copy is typically used to hand out to any recording artist who asks for a lead sheet, so it’s about as “official” as you can get, at least until it appears in the music stores. The one thing the publisher is NOT going to do is re-write it or transpose it for them (although with the advent of the computer, transposing isn’t a hassle anymore).
Absolutely not. There is no reason for any takedown artist to write it down in any other key than the one on the recording he is working from; transposing is always more work than not transposing. In fact, if you read my previous posts in this thread, I related a story of Norton Buffalo who got upset when he thought I had transposed all his songs and used a non-original key.
If the lead sheet goes back to the artist/songwriter and he can’t play along with it to check, he has a reason to wonder why.
I can’t recall ever being asked to write a lead sheet in some other key than the recording I worked from for copyright purposes, although I would have been glad to do so, as the union rate for transposing was 50% additional.
Correct. And I even know some examples of this procedure with some Paco de Lucía’s pieces…
But I don’t believe that the arrangers of Beatles song did work with sources other than the tapes provided by the record company. This means that the arrangers had at their disposal the “official” keys released on records…
But after the arrangement was made, the published could ask you to change the key for commercial purposes (=too many flats o sharps, too difficult key for beginners, etc.)…, correct??
Best!!
Crisanto
If “official” has no meaning in this context, I’m not sure what meaning “as ‘official’ as you can get does.”
Yes, of course. I was being a wee hyperbolic. My point was that for the purposes of copyright law, “official” has no meaning.
In the case of Paco de Lucía’s pieces from the seventies, the deposit copy is not in the same key as the recording ones. Not surprinsingly, copyright laws in Spain by those days had a very curious procedure. For example: the “official” sheet music publications on pieces like the famous ‘Entre Dos Aguas’ was published, under sheet music format for piano, with no accidentals in the key signature, this is, in A minor (=I know this not applies to a modal piece like ‘Entre Dos Aguas’, but let’s think of it as in A minor to facilitate the discussion…). However, the song is played by Paco in E minor (=I mean, with a sharp in the key signature…)
This means that José Torregrosa, the transcriber of the piece for the deposit, was considered as co-author of the piece (=Paco can’t read/write music), so he earned 50% of the incomes!!
Crisanto
Unless you have some inside information, that is pure speculation on your part.
I wrote lead sheets for the Eagles’ Hotel California album. Do you know what I worked from? Was it a finished pressing, a demo, an acetate master, a rough mix, a mix before sweetening, a tape, disc or what? (All of which I have had to use at one time) How would you know unless I told you?
They could, but they’re most likely to make that decision before printing the music. You may be confusing things here. The arrangement IS the published music, unless you mean an arrangement for recording purposes only.
Pics or it didn’t happen! 
No, seriously. The only time I can imagine a guitarist calling a tune in C# is if he’s playing in C but with a capo on the 1st fret, and is saying C# to avoid confusion.
If you’re talking about gospel/church guitarists specifically, I think it may come down, again, to the capo. We think of the capo as always being used to move the key “up”, and so think “sharp”. For example, if the song is in G and we put a capo on the first fret, now we’re playing in G#, not Ab. And then that mindset remains even when we become more experienced and stop using a capo.
You might already know this, but there is one thing that makes certain keys “bad” or “undesirable” for amateur/casual guitarists: bar chords. Guitarists gravitate toward certain keys — C, D, E, G, & A — for the simple reason that those chords have unique fingerings available that don’t require barring, though the keys of C and E, in a standard I-IV-V song will include one bar chord (F and B, respectively), and the relative minors of some of those chords require barring. Playing in pretty much any other key requires playing the song almost entirely with bar chords, something that can get tiring for a casual guitarist. The alternative is using a capo.
The F chord is a special problem because it’s a bar chord that is also played at the 1st fret. Since you have to bar the strings so close to the nut, it’s physically more difficult to press the strings down. Bb has the same 1st-fret problem, but it is mitigated by the fact that you can also play Bb at the 6th fret and still include that bottom Bb root in the chord. You can play an F at the 9th fret, but in that case it’s impossible to include the low F root in the chord.
Yes, you are right. Sorry for my speculation…
Yes… it’s clear for me. In fact, that was what I meant, but I expressed myself wrongly…
Thanks again for your unvaluable help!
Crisanto
BTW:
I believe I read on one of you posts a story telling that, after finishimg you the arrangement in 12/4, the publisher asked you to change it to 4/4, because that 12/4 was “odd” (=for commercial purposes…). So…, couldn’t happen the same with “odd” keys?? (=for instance, too many sharps/flats, and the publisher thinks that those key signatures are “odd” for commercial purposes…)
Thanks again and best wishes!!
Crisanto
That was 12/8 converted to 4/4, using triplets for every beat. It was not an arrangement, but a lead sheet, a transcription, drafted for copyright and other useful purposes (a guide sheet for future performances/arrangements).
It was a long time ago, but IIRC I submitted the chart with 12/8 and the publisher asked that I redo it (at his expense) in 4/4. It wasn’t a common occurence by any means.
Most publishers didn’t mess with such detail and didn’t know the difference between a sharp and a flat. If they made a request, I did it, and if it was out of my basic service range, it cost more.
Thanks again for your reply, Musicat…
Now, I unxerstand that publishers didn’t bother with key signatures, or other musical questions, when publishing a song. From your words, I learn that those questions were left to the arranger’s decission. They just published what did get…
Regarding the Paco de Lucía piece, my feeling is that José Torregrosa (=the transcriber) wrote it in that key (=no accidentals) because the range of the melody (=PdL guitar solo) would be very high on the piano if transcribed in the “right” key…
Best!! 
Crisanto
Great discussion. I’m learning all kinds of things.
Thanks for your feedback on my song/lead sheet. I think I’ll ask some of the local music schools and recording studios about it, and our University has an active music program and probably some hungry students who would work for less than union wage. Not that I have anything against unions.
Milton Okun biography (=the transcriber of the “second” hitus in the History of Beatles publishing story) has been published recently. The book contains some interesting information about how the whole thing of his Beatles songs transcription was made. This is one paragraph:
“…When I took it on, I thought it was going to be very simple, because the arrangements were already done and I’d just have to clean them up. Not a bit of it. They were so bad and so wrong that I had to start from the scratch. I went back to cassette for every song. To do the complete book was two years. Three hours a day…”
Crisanto
My band does an arrangement of the Andantino from Tchaikovsky’s 4th Symphony. The movement is in B-flat minor, so I gave the guitarist a chord sheet in A minor and told him to use a capo on the first fret. I give him the stink-eye every time he asks me to check our tuning by giving him an “A-sharp minor” scale. :dubious:
For the record, I’d personally never ask for that, but then I’m a multi-instrumentalist with honest-to-goodness musical training (something a lot of guitarists don’t actually have). For example, a lot of it is simply knowing what notes are appropriate in what key. I’d be giving the piano player the stink-eye if he handed me a lead sheet for a song in A or E or D, and there was a chord written as “A/Db”. Yes, I’ve actually seen that.