Why is so much sheet music in the wrong key?

[pulykamell]

@Mister_Rik

For the record, I’d personally never ask for that, but then I’m a multi-instrumentalist with honest-to-goodness musical training (something a lot of guitarists don’t actually have). For example, a lot of it is simply knowing what notes are appropriate in what key. I’d be giving the piano player the stink-eye if he handed me a lead sheet for a song in A or E or D, and there was a chord written as “A/Db”. Yes, I’ve actually seen that.

From the piano player? Ouch. An imposter.

[Musicat]

@Mister_Rik

I’d be giving the piano player the stink-eye if he handed me a lead sheet for a song in A or E or D, and there was a chord written as “A/Db”. Yes, I’ve actually seen that.

That’s nothing. I once had a guy tell me the harmony was a C major triad with a raised 3rd and a doubly-raised 5th.

In other words, an F chord.

[pulykamell]

@Musicat

That’s nothing. I once had a guy tell me the harmony was a C major triad with a raised 3rd and a doubly-raised 5th.

In other words, an F chord.

No, no, no. That’s a Csus4add6(no 5th).

[woodstockbirdybird]

@Musicat

I wrote lead sheets for the Eagles’ Hotel California album. Do you know what I worked from? Was it a finished pressing, a demo, an acetate master, a rough mix, a mix before sweetening, a tape, disc or what? (All of which I have had to use at one time) How would you know unless I told you?

Maybe this was covered, but why wouldn’t you use the commercially available recording to work from? I wouldn’t imagine anybody would be interested in buying sheet music for a popular song/album until it was actually released, and then they’d want the music to match the recordings they liked enough to shell out for sheet music.

[Mister_Rik]

@pulykamell

No, no, no. That’s a Csus4add6(no 5th).

Oh, a jazz chord!

[Crisanto]

@woodstockbirdybird

Maybe this was covered, but why wouldn’t you use the commercially available recording to work from? I wouldn’t imagine anybody would be interested in buying sheet music for a popular song/album until it was actually released, and then they’d want the music to match the recordings they liked enough to shell out for sheet music.

Well. Musicat will be able to answer this question much better than me. But I think that one procedure of the publishing companies by those days, was to release at the same time the recording and the sheet music. This means that the transcribers can’t work with the commercialy available recording because it didn’t exist yet…

Best!!

Crisanto

[Nava]

@Crisanto

In the case of Paco de Lucía’s pieces from the seventies, the deposit copy is not in the same key as the recording ones. Not surprinsingly, copyright laws in Spain by those days had a very curious procedure. For example: the “official” sheet music publications on pieces like the famous ‘Entre Dos Aguas’ was published, under sheet music format for piano, with no accidentals in the key signature, this is, in A minor (=I know this not applies to a modal piece like ‘Entre Dos Aguas’, but let’s think of it as in A minor to facilitate the discussion…). However, the song is played by Paco in E minor (=I mean, with a sharp in the key signature…)

This means that José Torregrosa, the transcriber of the piece for the deposit, was considered as co-author of the piece (=Paco can’t read/write music), so he earned 50% of the incomes!!

Under current Spanish laws, there are such bits as “if you’re in a trade which can be considered creative or non-creative (such as translator, videographer or musician), whether you charge VAT for your services depends on whether what you’re producing is available to the general public or not and whether you’re credited or not”. Corporate-only stuff? Non-creative work (because it’s not available to the public), charge VAT. Public work, you’re not credited? Non-creative work (since your name is not on it, the publishers are saying it doesn’t matter whether it was you or Donald Duck who did the work, results would have been the same), charge VAT. Public work, your name’s on it? Creative work, no VAT.

Torregrosa’s work was available to the general public, and being credited meant that the work being his was considered to have made a difference; that another transcriber would have produced a different result. Creative work, he’s entitled to “royalties”.

[Crisanto]

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@Nava

…Torregrosa’s work was available to the general public, and being credited meant that the work being his was considered to have made a difference; that another transcriber would have produced a different result. Creative work, he’s entitled to “royalties”.

Thank you, Nava!!

Torregrosa’s transcription for ‘Entre Dos Aguas’ (=sheet music format, i.e., two piano staves) was published on January 1975. On January 1977, is launched the álbum *Lo mejor de Paco de Lucía[/], with six pieces, but this time the transcription is for solo guitar (=and in the “right” keys…). Not surprisingly, another transcriber -besides Torregrosa- is credited with the copyrights: R[oberto] B. Díaz. Why?? Because Torregrosa, not being a guitar player, needed a guitarist to do the transcriptions for guitar, and this guitarist was Roberto B. Díaz…

Crisanto

[Musicat]

@woodstockbirdybird

Maybe this was covered, but why wouldn’t you use the commercially available recording to work from? I wouldn’t imagine anybody would be interested in buying sheet music for a popular song/album until it was actually released, and then they’d want the music to match the recordings they liked enough to shell out for sheet music.

How many commercially available recordings are available before the record is released? OTOH, the studio has a mix available to authorized parties the minute the sessions are done, before any records are pressed.

Don Henley: “Let’s not hurry with this. Maybe our new album won’t sell and no one will want to buy the sheet music. If we’re wrong, it’ll only cost us a few million dollars to catch up.”

[Crisanto]

A question for the British people here:

On the ‘And I Love Her’ sheet music published by Northern Songs, there is a code at the bottom of the first page: “…TEM 1687-8…”. I guess this could be the deposit copy number.

Any clues??

Thanks in advance and best wishes!!

Crisanto

[Musicat]

@Crisanto

On the ‘And I Love Her’ sheet music published by Northern Songs, there is a code at the bottom of the first page: “…TEM 1687-8…”. I guess this could be the deposit copy number.

Could be, but it could be a lottery prediction or the price of beans on Mars.

[Crisanto]

@Musicat

Could be, but it could be a lottery prediction or the price of beans on Mars.

:smack:

Crisanto

[Jaledin]

@Mister_Rik

Pics or it didn’t happen!

I’ve been in some open jams when I was just starting out where they called “Born Under A Bad Sign” in C# – it happens, man! I think that’s the key from the record. Not that bad a key for blues on piano, but I’ll still always think Db rather than get all those sharps in my noggin.

@Mister_Rik

If you’re talking about gospel/church guitarists specifically, I think it may come down, again, to the capo.

Actually I was talking about church piano players – on YouTube instructionals when I was trying to learn a few things like “Lift Him Up” (not a church player, but I love the sound) people were always, “just hit that C# with your left index finger” and stuff. Confusing to me.

@Mister_Rik

The F chord is a special problem because it’s a bar chord that is also played at the 1st fret. Since you have to bar the strings so close to the nut, it’s physically more difficult to press the strings down. Bb has the same 1st-fret problem, but it is mitigated by the fact that you can also play Bb at the 6th fret and still include that bottom Bb root in the chord. You can play an F at the 9th fret, but in that case it’s impossible to include the low F root in the chord.

Didn’t think about that. In fact, this guy who was leveling with me when I pressed him said Eb would be way better than F for him – and this isn’t some cat playing campfire chords, but a locally famous jazz musician.

The truth is out – I stopped playing guitar in high school because it’s too complicated. Picked it up again a number of years ago to “learn it right” and learn to read music (for some reason), but, no – it’s still too confusing to me.

[Acsenray]

I grew up playing the violin and now I’m trying to learn the guitar. For now, I’ve decided to take the approach of ignoring the music theory and just building up the muscle memory of the basic chord shapes. I find it much less complicated that way, because once you know the chord shapes, you just slide them up and down in half-tone increments.

[Mister_Rik]

I should have also mentioned that C, D, E, G, and A (as well as Dm, Em, and Am) are all what we call “open chords”, in that their rudimentary shapes all leave some of the strings unfretted, or “open”. And that just sounds better, aside from being easier to play. Every other “basic” major chord is a barred version of E or A, and every other basic minor chord is a barred version of Em or Am.

The shape of the basic D-Major chord can also be moved up the neck a half-step at a time, but that involves some awkward reaching with the 3rd and 4th fingers.

[woodstockbirdybird]

@Musicat

How many commercially available recordings are available before the record is released? OTOH, the studio has a mix available to authorized parties the minute the sessions are done, before any records are pressed.

Don Henley: “Let’s not hurry with this. Maybe our new album won’t sell and no one will want to buy the sheet music. If we’re wrong, it’ll only cost us a few million dollars to catch up.”

I guess it just makes more sense to me to release the sheet music after the album’s already been out a bit and people decide they like it and want to learn it, but obviously there must be people who want it immediately. Just seems weird to me.

[Musicat]

@woodstockbirdybird

I guess it just makes more sense to me to release the sheet music after the album’s already been out a bit and people decide they like it and want to learn it, but obviously there must be people who want it immediately. Just seems weird to me.

For the most popular artists, people want it before it is released. Some records sold out and went gold before they hit the stores.

Some groups are short-lived and if you wait for a while, the opportunity to sell stuff may have passed. The flip side of that is you may produce stuff nobody ever buys, but show biz has never been known for conservative business practices.

[Crisanto]

@Crisanto

A question for the British people here:

On the ‘And I Love Her’ sheet music published by Northern Songs, there is a code at the bottom of the first page: “…TEM 1687-8…”. I guess this could be the deposit copy number.

Any clues??..

This is an acetate of Dick James Music Limited demo of ‘From Me To You/Thank You Girl’ (=the last demo before Dick James Music became Northern Songs):

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/2063/imagecms.jpg

The serial number on the disc is TEM.1687/8 1610/1035, so it’s clear that the code is not the deposit code number…

Crisanto

[Crisanto]

Another acetate with the same code:

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/2194/imagebmo.jpg

Crisanto

[Crisanto]

On Chazz Avery website, there is this reading under the Dick James acetates section:

“…22 June 1964
[E53175] A (remix)
E53121 on the job sheet
And I Love Her (RM2) B…”

Please: what does “…on the job sheet…” mean??

Thanks in advance and best wishes!!

Xosé