Compared to the retangularised version of the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia? Seems that’s a lot more popular than the actual flags the Confederacy used - the Stars and Bars, Stainless Banner and Bloodstained Banner. The latter two in particular I’d have thought would be more popular with racist types as it was designed specifically as a ‘white man’s flag’; “As a people we are fighting maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.”
—William T. Thompson (April 23, 1863)
So how did the battle flag variant get so popular while the official flags are forgotten?
Because white flags look like surrender flags? Because the “heritage, not hate” people don’t give a hoot in a holler about actual history? Because the “stainless” and “bloodstained” banners use the battle flag as the canton and they want to simplify their iconography?
I suspect it’s because the design of the battle flag is symmetrical and pleasing to the eye (ignoring the actual meaning of the iconography, of course). When racists started bringing back the flag, they chose the one that looks coolest.
The flags the Confederacy we just that–the banners of a sovereign nation, the Confederate States of America. They are the emblems of a nation that no longer exists.
The battle flag, in contrast, is a rallying symbol for those who would continue the resistance against a federation that would exercise dominion over what were originally intended to be independent states. It is the middle finger aimed at The Man. It is, at its heart, an image of loyalty to the spirit of the founding fathers’ vision for the future of the newly independent colonies, as opposed to Lincoln’s vision. Trouble is, the reason it popped into existence wasn’t quite as lofty as that. It popped into existence to ensure various elements of our society could maintain their places–high and low.
Probably this. Is there any known history of how Georgia selected the flag in 1962(?) - did it come down to one person picking this flag and championing it through the halls of (white) power, and thus any hope of finding a basis for its choice? Or is it all lost in murky back-room discussions and voice votes?
The CSA flags all just meant existing, while the battle flag means fighting the USA. It reappeared as a means of inspiring Southerners to fight back against the USA’s imposition of the end of Jim Crow and desegregation. A flag representing the simple existence of a separate nation would be meaningless, but a flag meaning it was acceptable and necessary to continue the old “states’ rights” stuff (threadbare excuses, but convincing to many), *within *the USA, was symbolically powerful and remains so.
They were likely jumping on the bandwagon begun in 1948 by the States Rights Democratic Party, a/k/a the Dixiecrats, who were Democrats that opposed civil rights legislation and therefore splintered off from the mainstream Democratic convention to run their own candidate for President (one Strom Thurmond).
The Dixiecrats were the ones who adopted the Confederate battle flag as their symbol. Why that battle flag as opposed to one of the actual Confederate flags? I can find no cite, so this is only speculation, but I believe it was intended to represent an “ongoing” battle against equality, as opposed to being intended as an homage to a former nation.
The Stars and Bars was meant to be reminiscent of the USA flag whereas the battle flag as shown in the canton of the last two flags is truly a CSA creation.
Wrong. It was never a nation. It was a bunch of traitorous states in rebellion, not a nation. No matter how you try to twist facts, it will never be or have been a nation.
Just to clarify, had Britain put down the insurrection of her North American colonies in the late 18th century I’m sure the same could be said of the USA. Are you splitting hairs, or am I missing a finer point of the definition of nation? Because they were indeed going for unification under a single banner and government, no? I’m sincerely asking this, and maybe it is its own thread as this one seems to be more about fashion choices.
One thing to keep in mind is that flags, in a civilian context, were less ubiquitous during the Civil War era than today. Nineteenth Century flags were more closely associated with the military and with ships.
For example, remember Mary Pickersgill, who sewed the Star-Spangled Banner? She advertised “silk standards, cavalry, and division colours of every description”. Per wiki, “Her customers included the United States Army, United States Navy, and visiting merchant ships.” Her mother, sewing flags in 1781, advertised “All kinds of colours, for the Army and Navy, made and sold on the most reasonable Terms.”
Civilians, in that era, weren’t much of a market. States didn’t even have flags, since they didn’t have armies. (They had militias with “militia flags”.) The notion of the flag as an all-purpose totem of nationhood, flying over public and private buildings, is an outgrowth of nationalism in the late Nineteenth and early Twentieth Century.
Which is a long way of saying, that the notion that the civilian flag is the “actual” flag, is a modern construct. Few Southerners saw the civilian flag during the Civil War. Whereas if they served in the army, as virtually every young man did, they saw a great deal of battle flags.
The battle flag was visually appealing. It was more likely to be chosen for veteran parades and funerals, which is where most postwar Southerners saw the flag. When segregationists needed a banner starting in the 1940’s, it was a more natural choice than the nearly-forgotten civilian flags.
If Britain had put down the insurrection of her North American colonies then we’d all still be adding extraneous "u"s to words and driving on the wrong side of the road, but they didn’t and we won and became the nation of the United States of America.
In regards to the Civil War, the Northern States did put down the insurrection of the Southern rebels and therefore they never became a nation. I believe the south would have to have won to be considered a sovereign and independent nation.
Exactly. The difference, speaking not of ideology, is that we one and the south lost. The south was recognized by no other nations as anything other than a “belligerent.”
As to the OP, another reason the battle flag is popular among some types is that it enables them to imagine themselves as part of a continuing romanticized resistance force, rather than just a bunch of ignorant peckerwoods. The official flags don’t have that penache.
The government of the CSA wasn’t all that popular at the time in the South. And even less so after the war. Jefferson Davis, in particular, was held in incredibly low esteem for a while. (It’s quite surprising that his birthday eventually became a notable date anywhere at all.) Hence its flag isn’t that popular.
The Confederate forces, OTOH, were tremendously lionized.
The insignificance of government flags in that era cannot be overstated. Georgia didn’t have an official state flag until 1879. (And was based on the CSA flag as a tweak to the North.)
I think a big part of it is that Robert E. Lee is (and pretty much always has been) a lot more popular than Jefferson Davis.
Also, the Confederacy only existed for four years, and they had three different flags. That sort of suggests that, even at the time, nobody was particularly impressed by any of the Confederate flags. By the time the third one was rolled out, you kind of have to wonder how the under-armed, under-fed, often under-dressed soldiers in the Confederate armies were feeling about it. “I got no shoes, half a horn of powder, and am boiling grass for soup, and those assholes in Richmond are wasting their time designing another flag? Any chance we could just let the Yankees burn down the capitol building, and leave the rest of Virginia alone?”
One interesting thing about the whole Georgia state flag froofraw at the start of the current century was the choice to NOT return to the pre-1955 state flag, and then after the epic fail of the Placemat Flag, adopting the current one that you may notice IS the Stars and Bars, charged with the Georgia arms in the canton.
The battle flag was a quaint relic in the the days leading up to (forced) racial integration.
That was when it was revived as a symbol of, to raise a famous quote:
“Segregation now, segregation forever!”
resistance.
I wonder if the flag-making companies have records of production circa 1960-1970 and the sizes produced?
There may well be a few groups who had been quietly placing small flags on Confederate graves and are genuinely upset that they are now accused of racism. But I doubt it. By now, the lines have been drawn for over a generation.
As to the official flags - I suspect few outside Richmond (Capital of the erstwhile CSA) ever saw any of the three. Lee was the most mobile of the generals, and carried the battle flag. It was the one the veterans took home, if only in memory.
After the first flag was mistaken for the USA flag on the battlefield (VERY unfortunate), and the second one was mistaken for a flag of truce/surrender, you have to believe that the armies had better things to do than replace banners.
