Why is [the] Baha'i [faith] not more popular?

Great Debates
21

Well L. Ron and John Smith are automatically discounted as prophets because Baha’is believe Bahaullah was the manifestation of God for this era, and that there won’t be another one for at least (let me google, I can never remember)…1000 years after 1863 which is when Bahaullah declared his revelation. If you graph the accepted Baha’i manifestations, they tend to come between 500-1000 years apart except for the Baab and Bahaullah who lived at the same time but never met in person.

But I think you are really asking, what makes the accepted manifestations/prophets different from the discounted ones before Bahaullah? If so, I will be honest and say I am not sure why the orthodox prophets were decided the way they are…though like most things I am sure there is a scripture with an explanation, I am just ignorant of the passage (the canonical Baha’i writings include MANY volumes!).

Interesting side note, but the accepted manifestations, Krishna, Zoroaster, Buddha, Mohammed, etc, are not ALL of the manifestations, just the ones we know about, it is implied in certain writings that there were Native American manifestations of God that we don’t know about who were lost in oral traditions etc.

I acknowledge my tremendous ignorance about the Baha’i Faith too, and I am one! :wink: I have attended classes which are very similar to sunday school classes you might be familiar with (but Baha’is meet at each other’s homes to encourage community, we don’t really have churches in the same way), but there is a TON to learn, but living a Baha’i lifestyle is fairly simple IMO there aren’t too many burdensome rules. Lack of drinking and marijuana is definitely not easy with my group of friends and the fact that I was a convert as an adult.

Anyway, what makes Bahaullah “legitimate” to me, and one of the biggest reasons I became a Baha’i, is because I had a feeling my whole life that the Bible was more appropriate for people 2000 years ago, than modern people. Civilization has come a long way since then, slavery is condoned in the Bible. I have never seen another religion that so embraces science and literally says, if a scientific discovery discounts a religious claim, then that religion is wrong. Look at Climate Change denialists and young earth creationists… they are denying simple reality because it contradicts their book, hurting their faith in the process.

So ideologically and politically I agree with Baha’i beliefs more than any other religion, it just fits me, but beyond that when I read Bahaullah’s words they echo in my heart and soul in a way that I never experienced at all growing up Christian and reading the Bible. I always knew I was religious but I had way too many problems with Christianity, and by chance one day I saw a glimpse of a Baha’i membership card in a customer’s wallet and I asked him about it, and here I am. :slight_smile:

22

I can imagine some die-hard Christians objecting to the universality aspect. These are folks who have had it drilled in their head that the only true path is the one that leads up to Jesus. Taking the best ideas out of the world’s major religious sounds like some feel-good, made-up thing to them. Like it was invented by someone who simply doesn’t want to follow any rules or do anything difficult.

The only Baha’i’s I’ve ever knowingly met (and I didn’t even know at the time) were my middle school music teacher and her husband. One day my father snidely remarked about their “weird” religion. I don’t think he even knew what the faith is all about (and probably still doesn’t). Just the name alone communicates that it ain’t Christian–and that’s all he needs to know!

23

This seems like too-obvious an answer, but could it be that there just aren’t very many Bahaists around to attract as many followers as other faiths have?

There’s a UU church just down the street from me, well within walking distance. There’s a Quaker meeting house just down another street, also very close. The closet Baha’i center is a two hour drive. It’s just more practical for me to be something non-Bahaist, if I were inclined to “be” something.

24

Maybe this is a semantics issue, but I can’t see Baha’i as being anything other than an offshoot of Islam, just as Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism ( and Islam is sorta an offshoot of both of the latter faiths, though rather more heavily influenced by Judaism ). It’s just a question of lineal descent and has nothing to do with whether they are separate religions vs. sects.

The Alawites, Druse and Baha’i all budded directly from different branches of Shi’a Islam. Following the thoughts of its adherents the first is still functionally an Islamic sect, albeit a highly heterodox one. The latter two are considered separate faiths by their adherents. But all are offshoots of Islam.

25

The Bahai really aren’t that prominent in the West. We Iranians have, unfortunately been very good at exterminating them, and that’s true of both the Mullahs and the Pahlevis.

26

Both yellowjacketcoder and Rogerbox have misunderstood what the Bahais are saying about the need for a world government. It is not a Bahai government, but a commonwealth of nations, and as nations are of all different creeds and cultures, it would necessarily be a mixed bag. Shoghi Effendi (great-grandson of the founder, and the Bahai Faith’s “official theologian” in effect), writes

he goes one with a lot of details, you can read it here:
http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/se/WOB/wob-56.html
The link goes to the Bahai Reference Library where you can find a considerable number of Bahai books, free for the having, or to read online. There’s a search engine too.

Basically, the idea is not the abolition of nations, races, religions and classes, rather it is a framework of agreed principles and mechanisms that makes the diverse human family secure, peaceful and somewhat governable. The catchword is “unity in diversity” NOT “everyone become Bahai, then we can start doing stuff.” That would be totally unrealistic, and the Bahai founding figures (the Bab, Baha’u’llah, Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi) were not unrealistic utopians. They had an analysis of the world’s problems and a plan. Not a plan to be imposed on others, but a plan in the sense of foreseeing what kind of measures the nations of the world would eventually be compelled by their own interests and the necessities of history to adopt. And what they foresaw is more or less happening,

27

I don’t see what (And I don’t mean this to be insulting) Baha’i is offering that can’t be found in various sects of other religions.

I see an obstacle in that Baha’i requires you to recognize Jesus, Mohammed and Bahulla as prophets.

Judaism holds that all the prophets are in the Torah. There are no more. Saying somebody else was a prophet is heresy.

Some sects of Christianity, as I understand them (I’m sure some one will correct me if I’m wrong) hold that various other folks (from Joseph Smith to Francis of Asisi) were prophets. BUT That these prophets got their powers and message from Jesus. No true prophet would preach a message that goes against Jesus. Such a thing is heresy.

Islam holds that Mohammed was the last prophet. Any other claim is heresy.

28

Yes, it’s wildly inconsistent. How do you follow both Buddha and Mohammed? Well, you don’t.

29

As opposed to following both Jesus and Muhammad or Moses and Jesus?

30

We don’t say we follow them, that is your misunderstanding. If we followed the Buddha we’d of course be Buddhists. We acknowledge them as manifestations of God, and their revelations are different because we believe in progressive revelations for different peoples and different eras. Bahaullah’s revelations are the first for all people the world over because of technology.

31

Exactly. It’s like how Jesus is considered a prophet by followers of Islam, but they don’t follow him. They just think he was a righteous dude (and a messenger of God).

32

Also guys it is “the baha’i faith” or even 'the baha’i religion", baha’is are the followers of the faith, when you just call it baha’i it sounds like ‘I don’t know what Jew has to offer…’ :wink:

33

I sincerely apologize.

34

No need to apologize, its pretty hard to offend me and I would imagine most non-baha’i have no idea. I’m pleased to talk about my faith and glad Sen McGlinn is around to correct my errors. BTW I of course completely agree that to Muslims and many Christians the faith is heretical, but so are all or almost all religions not theirs.

35

I just read the Wikipedia entry on the faith.

I’m puzzled by the position on homosexuality. Modern psychology has come to the conclusion that homosexuality is not a sickness and cannot be cured. Yet the authorities of the Baha’i religion seem to continue to say that. This seems to conflict with the ‘if science and religion disagree, religion is wrong’ principle.

36

I don’t know that it’s that hard to understand. They believe that the only moral sex is between two married people of the opposite sex. . .that that’s the only natural and moral sexual behavior. So, homosexuality is like premarital sex, as morally wrong.

I don’t agree with it, obviously, but that’s not a really uncommon attitude for religions to take. And the Bahai faith doesn’t teach that if science and religion disagree, religion is wrong. It says that, fundamentally there isn’t a conflict between science and religion, and that “Any religious belief which is not conformable with scientific proof and investigation is superstition, for true science is reason and reality, and religion is essentially reality and pure reason; therefore, the two must correspond”.

But that means, “If we say religion is opposed to science, we lack knowledge of either true science or true religion, for both are founded upon the premises and conclusions of reason, and both must bear its test”. And in this case, the faith teaches that the scientific studies that say that homosexuality is incurable is flawed (but they also go on to say that even if it is incurable, that doesn’t mean that homosexual sex is morally permissible. They make the alcoholism analogy. Somebody might have an inclination to drink alcohol, but that doesn’t mean that alcohol use is permissible.)

37

I think the difference between the baha’i take on homosexuality and conservative Christianity and Islam is pretty important though. A practicing homosexual cannot be a baha’i, but beyond that it is completely unimportant. Baha’is are free to promote marriage equality, what have you… conservative Christians on the other hand, think that not only can a practicing homosexual not be a Christian, but that homosexuals are damned to an eternity in hell (we do not), and good Christians should deny them the right to marry and as many rights as you possibly can, just because it’s icky to you. Nevermind that the few parts of the bible that comdemn homosexuality also say not to mix fabrics or eat shellfish (which most Christians do) so that their beliefs aren’t really Biblical, just systematic bigotry.

In practice, homosexuality just never comes up at baha’i events. It’s a very conservative position to have for such an otherwise progressive faith, and I struggled with it for years (it was in fact, the reason I did not become a baha’i for a very long time), but it’s pretty far ahead of the pack IMO just by not being hateful about it. It still saddens me though.

38

The Dalai Lama takes virtually the same position. He argues that if you are a Tibetan Buddhist, the only acceptable form of sex is male to female, genital to genital.

39

More back to the OP’s original question, why is the faith not more popular? The faith was actually gaining adherents very fast in the 1800’s in Iran, but after a failed assasination attempt on the King of Persia by a rogue baha’i who was excommunicated for it, there was systematic-killing and torture of baha’is. Google is failing me now but I was told of a baha’i researcher who calculated that 1/3 of Iran would be baha’i today if that had never taken place.

40

I’m an atheist and that’s what Baha’i sounds like to me. What does it mean to “respect all the teachings” of the major religions? I think all religion is bullshit but Islam, Judaism, and Hinduism is at least honest bullshit in my book.