Went to the Baha’i Temple in Wilmette IL yesterday. Pretty incredible building and grounds. If you are anywhere near the area, you could do worse than checking it out.
But what impressed me the most was what I read about Baha’i in the welcome center and literature (Yes - I kept a brochure printed in Esperanto! ) Personally, I lack the ability to believe in a g/God. But for folk who do, I wonder why more folk do not gravitate towards Baha’i. The brochure says there are only something like 5 million Baha’i worldwide, and 155,000 in the US.
As I understand it, Baha’i respects the teachings of all of the major religions. According to the (English version) pamphlet I have, its core principles include elimination of all prejudice, equality of the sexes, harmony of science and religion, world peace upheld by a world government, spiritual solutions to economic problems, and universal education.
Wondering what factors prevent more deists from gravitating to it? Is it the Eastern flavor? The “world government” aspect? I’ve long thought one of the allures of religion was that it was one of few remaining areas where prejudice is permitted - so if I were cynical, I could say folk would not desire a religion in which they were encouraged NOT to be prejudiced against other beliefs/practices/lifestyles…
Another thing that my wife and I kept asking was - where does the money come from? This temple and its grounds were BEAUTIFUL. Maintained impeccably. And that sort of thing does not happen without the expenditure of considerable effort - which usually means money. One thing I had to appreciate as a visitor was that only members of the Baha’i faith can make donations. Hard to get my mind around the level of voluntary donations from 5 million folk worldwide that would pay for the upkeep of this temple and the 6 others throughout the world.
Seems unnecessary, especially if you come from a Judeo-Christian background. If you want universality/liberalism/world peace there is a welcoming UU church (or many other liberal Christian or Jewish congregation) nearby.
What does Baha’i offer that UU doesn’t? Other than beautiful buildings, which I can go visit without joining.
Also, your last question might have something to do with the low membership numbers. The few Baha’i I actually knew were rather evangelical about recruiting, and I got the impression that monetary contribution was a significant part of the faith.
You assume because you like those things that most people would. Sadly, you’re mistaken. I think a lot of people like their particular faith because it gives them a rationale for their prejudice, or they DON’T think the sexes should be equal.
The world government thing is going to freak out anyone but the hardcore statists. Theocracy sound ok until you hear it’s someone else’s religion.
As far as harmony with science and universal education, there’s a streak of anti-intellectualism out there a mile wide.
And for someone that DOES agree with all those things… Many of the more liberal flavors of Christianity, Reform Judaism, certain flavors of Buddishm, would all fit the bill just fine, and those have the perception of being a ‘real’ religion.
The question isn’t “why don’t people become Baha’i?” the question is “Why would they?”
There is the idea that a mid-1800s Persian was God’s most recent Avatar/Spokesman, and that He is the latest of a succession that includes Krishna, Moses, Buddha, Jesus & Mohammed. One could just be a Unitarian Theist & leave it at that.
Btw, there is a Unitarian movement that does believe the UUA has gone too far with its God-optional view.
Thanks all - you make a lot of good points. I guess there are “liberal” branches of many more mainstream religions, which allow considerable variety in terms of specific beliefs, but do not require that one identify outside of the traditional judeo-christian theology. I remember talking to a rabbi of a synagogue, and thinking I could really imagine becoming a part of that community - but for that one niggling required belief…
Heck, IMO&E, that has been a pretty predominant trend for the past decade or so in UUA, with a considerably less vocal and less influential element urging respect for Humanist principles.
As a non-believer, it often strikes me a curious how people approach their chosen church. Many identify for social reasons, remaining ignorant of what has historically distinguished their particular religion/sect from others. Whereas others seem quite willing to take a cafeteria approach - whether or not their religion offers their principles as DIY mix-and-match. I guess given my position, I didn’t see it as all that hard for people to accept one more possible messenger/prophet. And I sensed the eastern/universal elements would appeal to mystical newagers as well as world community folk.
I absolutely love the Wilmette temple. It’s not too far from where I live and it’s one of the “must see” places I always bring out of town visitors. Without fail, it has impressed the hell out of them.
FYI, actor Rainn Wilson is a Baha’i, and grew up in a Baha’i family. His parents actually worked at the Wilmette temple and he may have as well when he was younger. Here’s an interview with him about his faith.
We visited the Bab’s Tomb in Haifa on a family visit to Israel when I was a kid in the 70’s. I remember it being quite beautiful, and I came away with the impression that Baha’i is to Islam as Unitarianism is to Christianity. ISTM that Unitarianism is a natural progression in a Christianity-dominant culture as modernity, diversity, and scientific progress make orthodox religious belief more difficult to sustain. That being said, even Unitarianism is a relatively small religion, given that most people who move in that direction seem to go straight to non-religion from orthodoxy.
One might expect Baha’i to make more inroads in the Muslim world (especially Persia and the Arab countries), should they move in a more secular direction, but also expect it to remain relatively small.
Baha’i checking in, just FYI but the proper useage of the term in the thread title would be “the Baha’i Faith” instead of “Baha’i” standing alone.
You’re very lucky, I have seen the temple as a child but I only became a Baha’i a few years ago, I haven’t gotten to see it as an adult.
Speaking personally since I don’t have scripture to back this up, I’d hazard a guess that most Baha’i would say you don’t believe in God, not that you can’t.
Wanting to hold onto prejudices has not been what has kept the people I know from becoming a Baha’i. I would say the reasons in order are:
Lack of awareness of the faith in general
Holding onto beliefs they grew up into and comforting traditions (I knew Baha’is who were hesitant to convert because we don’t have Christmas trees and her best memories were of Christmas trees!)
Scriptural/Doctrinal conflicts with their current religions. I am friends with a youth pastor and we disagree about a few things- I believe the his qualms with the faith are addressed in the Baha’i concept of progressive revelation but we agree to disagree about it and I have the utmost respect for him and his faith. He is one of the best examples of a Christian I know.
Yes, it’s considered a special privilege to give to the faith, so only Baha’is worldwide are allowed to. There are guides for tithing set out by Bahaullah, and members give in envelopes at Feast (the only function you must be a Baha’i to attend, since money is discussed), which is saved for local clusters to use, and a portion of that money is then sent to national headquarters.
There is a misunderstanding. The Baha’i world government can only be implemented when humanity is Baha’i. So there can never be a ruling Baha’i theocracy holding non-baha’i to the faith.
It isn’t a Baha’i practice to deny scientific discovery, can’t say I’ve ever encountered anti-intellectualism in the faith. Education, science and wisdom are held in great esteem:
“Religion and science are the two wings upon which man’s intelligence can soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It is not possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with the wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone he would also make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of materialism. All religions of the present day have fallen into superstitious practices, out of harmony alike with the true principles of the teaching they represent and with the scientific discoveries of the time.”-Bahaullah
I definitely agree that perception is part of the problem in my personal experience, I won’t disagree there.
I was hanging out at Baha’i functions for years before I made my declaration and became a Baha’i. I asked someone I trusted when I would know I was a Baha’i, and they said “because you believe Bahaullah was who he said he was”, and I already did, which made declaring easy. But this was after I had studied quite a bit (to me, I am still not the most bookish Baha’i by a long shot!) There are a lot of good reasons to become a Baha’i actually but I’m at work so I will just name the biggest one off the top of my head:
Bahaullah died in the age of radio, and was announcing a new faith for the global era, with things much more relateable to modern society than the older major religions.
You’re misreading me. I understand that Baha’i appreciate education and science. But there’s an anti-intellectual streak that will cause people to NOT be Baha’i because they don’t agree with the Baha’i stance on education and science.
Strictly speaking, I could stand behind the eliminate of prejudice, since it means the holding of a negative opinion without prior thought or reason. However, the elimination of prejudice would not mean the elimination of negative thoughts. Some things deserve to be viewed negatively even after they’ve been researched and thought about. Perhaps we could call this “postjudice”.
The Baha’i endorse equal respect for the teachings of all major religions. If I’d looked at the teachings of all major religions and found them all to be equally deserving of respect, then I’d be a good candidate for conversion to the Baha’i faith. On the other hand, if I found the teachings of Jesus to be much better than the teachings of Mohammed and Joseph Smith and others, then I’m not such a good candidate.
Similies are always hard to get exactly right, but I just want to stress that the Baha’i Faith isn’t an offshoot of Islam, it’s a new religion. There are definite similarities (muslims and baha’is both fast etc), but the Baha’i Faith isn’t a sect of any other religion. Also a belief in God is required unlike the Unitarian church, and “orthodoxy” as my understanding of the word is pretty much the definition of being a Baha’i, since creating/having different sects of the faith is forbidden, you are either a Baha’i or not a Baha’i, there aren’t any flavors of Baha’i. Members do have different perspectives and opinions though, but the faith is only interpreted by the Universal House of Justice in Haifa, Israel.
Fun fact, we don’t have any clergy in the faith, they’re also strictly forbidden, and use of pulpits is not allowed, though I have seen some stands on stages so that speakers can keep some reading materials and notes handy.
The Baha’i prophets are treated equally in that their message reflected God’s message for that place and era. However Joseph Smith is not considered a prophet to Baha’is, so your opinion of Joseph Smith shouldn’t keep you from becoming a Baha’i. Another thing to consider is that the prophets Baha’is do recognize (called “manifestations of God”), were all intended for the people they were reaching, at those various times. What makes Bahaullah special is that he was the first prophet for the entire globe in the information age.
About Mohammed, personally I think of what the area was like before he received his revelation, and afterward he spread Islam, for the first time women were guaranteed some basic rights whereas before they were strictly chattel… fairly impressive and amazingly progressive in some ways for a barbaric era.
Apologies. The analogy was certainly not perfect. Perhaps it would be better to say that the Baha’i Faith came from a primarily Islamic cultural milieu in the way that UU came from a primarily Christian milieu, and they both approach the same problems with traditional religious orthodoxy in the modern era, though with quite different approaches and emphases.
Why not? That occurred to me as well. How about L. Ron? Of course, this is from a guy who considers the reliable evidence of Jesus’ existence pretty darned sketchy, not to mention his evidence of his divinity being nonexistent.
I don’t mean to put you on the spot, so feel free to ignore my question. And I acknowledge my tremendous ignorance regarding the Baha’i Faith. But what, in your understanding, makes Bahaullah any more “legitimate” a messenger than any number of other self proclaimed “holy” people?
) Personally, I lack the ability to believe in a g/God. But for folk who do, I wonder why more folk do not gravitate towards Baha’i. The brochure says there are only something like 5 million Baha’i worldwide, and 155,000 in the US.
