A question…
When it is surmised that the board is X% liberal and Y% conservative, is that based on a comprehensive survey of all members or of the members who choose to engage in political debate? The latter, I assume.
I’m a “fairly” conservative fellow who simply chooses not to engage in debates over politcal opinions. Poster ? may be a “fairly” liberal fellow who simply chooses not to engage in…
So, can we really with any degree of certainty classify the entire SDMB?
Sir Rhosis
Neither. Every once in a while someone will link to an online political test and ask people to post their results. That’s where the figures come from.
Since they’re based on self-reported data, you have to take them with a grain of salt. But I think it’s fair to say that there is some degree of leftism here.
In addition to the reasons already mentioned, bear in mind that this is 1) an internet messageboard, which means access is restricted to those with an internet connection, and 2) dominated by people who are 20-35.
It may seem more left leaning to you merely because of circumstances on one particular group of issues surrounding the current POTUS who happens to be a Republican.
What Dopers are, are folk who are critical and analytical, and when presented with information that certain claims, then those claims are challenged from all sides.
When those claims are found to be weak, the evidence does not back up the assertions made on its behalf, then you’ll get lots of criticism and condemnation.
The biggest issues that repeat on the boards at the moment are Iraq, WMD, and the race for the presidency, and these threads spread across the whole boards.
You could add in things such as the ‘war on terrorirsm’ along with Euro and World Dopers putting in their view and you could gain that impression things are left leaning rather than objective.
Economically the Dope is pretty right wing, on guns, on taxation, on employment issues, on state intervention, the Dope is right wing, at least most of us Yurpeans think so.
It doesn’t help that the few Republican Dopers who choose to make comment on the Iraq etc issues actually seem bereft of critcal reasoning faculties, and keep harping on with spurious ‘facts’ which take flight and end up hurtling groundwards with arses in flames.
This does not make all Republican Dopers bereft of critical reasoning, the more intelligent ones tend to say less about these issues if at all, their few stupid brethren dont do them much service at all.
The result is that you get a cacophony of the same suspects making the same points, its like a turkey shoot and folk like easy targets.
You will find intelligent Republicans elsewhere, who are thoughtful, quote acceptable cites, provide good hard evidence, but they do it in places that are not such hot button issues (unless their evidence is strong), because the argument has largely been lost there, and they are wise enough to know it.
In the end, knocking Bush and his idiocies is less about partisan politics, and more about debunking lies, misleading statements etc and its a game that is so unchallenging that we can all join in, its just sport, if one sided.
Personally my views on offenders are far to the right of Attila the Hun, same with those who are capable of work who choose to live upon the public purse rather than bend their backs.
I think El_Kabong made the key point as far as Sir Rhosis’s question goes…its mostly based on the participants here in GD and 2 or 3 threads linked to on-line political tests as ultrafilter said. Its probably unfair to paint the entire board with such a broad brush…especially by me since I’ve only recently started to really explore the other forums.
Actually I’ve learned a lot about REAL english syntax and such on this board…not to mention a lot of other things (I LOVE this board). Plus, I’ve started using a spell checker and getting my wife to help me by proofing some of my posts before I hit submit (she is an born and bred American :)). But thanks for the compliment.
-XT
I can understand the view that leftist paper running Cecil’s column equals leftist posters, for the most part, but not really. Although, pretty conservative, I read the “leftist” paper here out of Cincy, but became aware of Cecil through an old paperback reprinting of his columns.
I would not think internet aceess equals left leaning, or am I misreading you?
Anyway, an interesting thread.
Sir Rhosis
Not necessarily, but it does indicate that we’re not dealing with the general population here, so there’s no a priori reason to expect an even split.
You’re telling me that English isn’t your first language?! My compliments to you sir.
You don’t have to go very far back in our history to see an election where the Conservative Republican candidate for President carried only one state – his own – against a Liberal Democrat. (Goldwater vs Johnson in 1964) Left-learning folks were even more active in the early part of the 20th century and then again during the peace, civil rights and feminist movements of the 1950’s, 60’s and 70’s.
I think that the pendumlum is maybe beginning its swing back to a more moderate position. The word “Liberal” is losing its insult value and being restored to some reasonable respect with intelligent Conservatives. And although many Conservatives who have much to contribute to SDMB retain their values, it is difficult for them to defend the current President.
They are welcome. Some fundamentalists of all sorts can be a little close-minded or circular in their reasoning and their tactics can be frustrating. But that can be true of bunches of Dopers, including, sadly, myself.
Indeed.
Regards,
Shodan
Well, there’s two major groups of Dopers:
Group 2 is predominately comprised of Dopers from other industrialized countries, Canada probably being the single largest group, but we also have Dopers from most other industrialized nations. That group, on average, is more liberal than the American group, since Americans are generally more conservative in many key areas than people from other industrialized nations. Even if you were to assume that American Dopers were split down the middle, the foreign Dopers would throw the balance to the left. So there’s that.
And there may be a demographic impact within the American contingent. Like it or not, educated people and Internet-savvy folk are likelier to be liberal than conservative; I also suspect the board has a slightly lower average age than the population at large, another liberal push.
I think the main political bias on this board is an anti-authoritarian bias, which probably isn’t too surprising. A secondary bias is a bias toward educated people and critical thinking.
Because of both of these biases, authoritarian / religious Right conservatives certainly are not very strongly represented here. On the other hand, libertarian conservatives are all over the place. If this Board determined our political society at large, the Libertarian Party might well be the first or second biggest political party here rather than a tiny miniscule minority party.
On most social / civil liberties issues, this bias translates into the SDMB looking quite liberal (with a notable exception being gun control, which makes sense; another exception is probably affirmative action). On economics issues, I think there is a very vigorous and healthy debate between the liberals and the conservative/libertarians.
I have always thought that the Straight Dope was the epicenter of the “left wing media bias” that we keep hearing about. So where else would I hang out?
Oh yeah, I would also say that overall, this Board is probably more anti-Bush than pro-Bush. And, this makes sense too since obviously the liberals on the Board are anti-Bush. And, many of the libertarians / conservatives on the Board recognize how fiscally irresponsible Bush is and don’t like his catering to the religious Right.
Also, the well-educated and well-informed bias on this Board means that the conservatives here are more likely to see the case that Bush is just a poor President even if they might tend to be more ideological aligned with him.
My goodness, XT. I’ve never thought of you as anything other than a native speaker (and I’m an English teacher!) Kudos on your hard work at the language.
Aside - I don’t think you can ascribe that one to a high point in liberalism in America. Remember, there were the residual effects of the Kennedy assasination and the South was still dominated by yellow-dog Democrats. The New Deal was still going strong, if that counts.
Not stupid, just less smart. 
I agree. I’m generally opposed to the libertarian philosophy and agree that the SDMB is a bastion of libertarianism/Utopians.
I also think there was a marked shift on this board a couple of years ago - one that had to do with a number of obnoxious posters running roughshod over Great Debates, abusing anyone who disagreed with them mercilessly. I remember an awful lot of conservative types that used to post here regularly vanishing during this period.
Now to address some of the howlers in this thread:
jshore said:
The first part of this is not true, in my opinion. Anti-authoritarians don’t vote for big government programs. Anti-Authoritarians are generally not socialists, because socialism requires Big Authority.
The second part of that statement is just more snobbish elitism. Oh, we’re liberal because we’re smart, and we think critically! It’s a variant on Little Nemo’s statement:
Self-congratulatory twaddle. On average, Republicans tend to have more education than Democrats. Democrats tend to have more Ph.D’s, but more Republicans have high school diplomas and Bachelor’s degrees.
I think the most accurate statement overall is that people tend to cluster into communities of like-minded individuals. So at some point a tipping point is reached where people of one party outnumber the people in the other, and the atmosphere becomes hostile to the minority and they leave. Eventually, everyone congregates in their little bubble of online space. So you have the freepers on the right, the SDMB on the left.
What I find sad is that this place used to be very balanced, and that’s a rarity on the net. But that balance is gone now. It is very difficult to be a conservative poster on here, and it’s not because you liberals are so brilliant - it’s because you outnumber the conservatives greatly, and as a result conservatives get run ragged trying to respond to all the different arguments that come flying towards them when they post their opinion. I find that all the time. I’ll post a message, and go to work. That night, there will be fifteen different responses. Responding to them all takes hours, and then of course all those responses get attacked by more. If you stop responding to them all, you get accused of ignoring points selectively, ‘lying’, or of not having a response. Throw in the drive-by pile on posters that just pop in to say, “You ripped him a new one that time!” whenever someone they agree with posts, and it becomes a pretty hostile environment. So new conservatives that show up here aren’t likely to last. The only ones left seem to be the guys like Shodan and myself who are too stubborn to give up.
Tell you what: Go over to Free Republic and try to post your enlightened liberal ideas and see how you fare. Or pick a conservative blog and post your opposition in the comments. You’ll see how hard it is to debate when you’re outnumbered 10-1, regardless of how sound your ideas may be.
El_Kabong said:
This amazes me, because I see it as exactly the opposite. In fact, this very thread disproves the point, what with the number of posters claiming the SDMB is liberal because smart people hang out here, and how support for the war is not a legitimate opinion.
In my experience, people on the left are the most elitist, close-minded people I’ve met. They KNOW they are right. They think Republicans are evil, or stupid, or both. They can’t comprehend how any thinking being can possibly draw conclusions other than their own. When you debate them and refuse to concede points, they get mad and call you names. Happens on this board all the time.
I’d say rich, business-type people are more politically aware to look out for their own interests whereas liberals tend to look for the greater good. Often that means things like OSHA laws and Unemployment taxes and Family Leave Act laws and anti-Discrimination laws, etc. All of which costs businesses money and tends to make them economically conservative. Self-interest, in my view, tends to trump the socially liberal side of the equation. While a conservative might agree with liberals on, say, abortion policy that isn’t enough to give up on their economic interests.
I also think you tend to see conservatives as the party that will tell others what they should and should not do while liberals adhere more to the Golden Rule and figure to leave each to their own without some overriding concern. An example of this would be the schism on gay marriage and tends to roll in the social conservatives perhaps most extremely represented by the Religious Right.
Given that the SDMB tends to be at its heart a fight to stamp out ignorance most who come and stay here are willing to consider alternate views and honestly debate them and to me that jibes more closely with a liberal viewpoint. That is not to say conservatives can’t do the same and many here prove that. Merely a broad stroke thing that sees SDMB lopsided to the left. That does not make conservatives any more or less stupid on the whole than liberals…just they seem more firm that they already know the right answers for everyone (generally speaking) which doesn’t go over too well on this forum.
More simply put, an open minded conservative is a rare creature compared to open minded liberals and open mindedness is rewarded here.
Oh my…<wipes tears from eyes> That’s a good one. Shall I count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I’ve hear a liberal on this board say, “You know, the conservatives have a point about that one…”
The ‘open-mindedness’ of the liberals around here extends to their being willing to take time out of their busy day to explain to Conservatives just how wrong they are. And if they don’t get it the first time, to resort to insults and snide comments about their intelligence and mendacity.