Why is their a strong belief that single women can't raise boys?

[DrDeth]

@GlowingDarkness

I’ve heard this from quite a lot of people. This is mainly directed at the African American community in the US. They say that single women cannot raise boys to be “men” and that only men can do it because the female experience is different from the male…

Can you cite such a belief is the norm?

[Kimstu]

@Shodan

Single parents do less well in general. The relatively better economic circumstances of single fathers mean that they do better than single mothers.

Which, along with your other evidence, seems to suggest that the reasons “single parents do less well in general” than two-parent families may also be largely economic.

As for the OP’s question about why these circumstances are popularly perceived as a shortcoming or failure specifically on the part of single mothers, I think it’s probably because mothers are generally considered the primary bearers of responsibility for how a child turns out. Societal patterns of “blaming the mommy” for every kind of developmental outcome from homosexuality to delinquency to autism are well attested.

[Kimstu]

@DrDeth

Can you cite such a belief is the norm?

IAN GlowingDarkness and can’t speak for him/her, nor do I have any way of assessing what the “norm” is for opinions on single parenthood, but I can definitely attest that this is a recurring and much-debated claim among US blacks as well as among non-black people opining about “black culture”. As noted in this article from the lifestyle magazine Essence targeted to black audiences:

“A woman can’t raise a boy to be a man.”

If I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard that, perhaps I could bribe a few deadbeat daddies into coming back to their children. While I understand much of the rhetoric about women raising boys well is intended to encourage (or perhaps shame) men into owning their parental responsibilities, it often reads more like a heavy-handed critique of single mothers. Because we should come down harder on the parent who remains, as opposed to the parent who fled, right?

There are many women in our community raising children with limited to non-existent support from the other parent. There are many reasons for this, and we do have serious work to do when it comes to encouraging our people to be responsible about when and where they conceive a child and with whom, however, we do little to support single moms and their children by continuing to spread rhetoric about how these women “can’t” raise sons that they already have.

[Shodan]

@Kimstu

Which, along with your other evidence, seems to suggest that the reasons “single parents do less well in general” than two-parent families may also be largely economic.

Perhaps, but that might also be a chicken-and-egg problem, where being a single parent depresses your income and thus disadvantages your children even apart from any other factors.

Regards,
Shodan

[Kimstu]

@Shodan

Perhaps, but that might also be a chicken-and-egg problem, where being a single parent depresses your income and thus disadvantages your children even apart from any other factors.

Also true.

[spamforbrains]

As an aside from the economic problem, is it possible these people are objecting to the fact that a single woman is very unlikely to pressure a boy into becoming “macho” or enforcing other strange cultural beliefs about restrictions around what men and boys are allowed to do and think?

[UDS]

@spamforbrains

As an aside from the economic problem, is it possible these people are objecting to the fact that a single woman is very unlikely to pressure a boy into becoming “macho” or enforcing other strange cultural beliefs about restrictions around what men and boys are allowed to do and think?

Mm, not really, I think. The usual concern is not that boys raised by women grow up passive and placid, but that they grow up without learning how to channel their energies and passions, and without learning the importance of leadership and respect for leadership, and so become aimlessly violent and aggressive. Hence, unemployability and criminality.

Or, in other words, the concern is not “not sufficiently macho”; it’s “too macho”.

[Velocity]

Can a single father raise daughters well? Why or why not?

The same logic applies to single mothers raising boys. I’m not arguing positively or negatively here, just pointing out that it goes both ways.

[Kimstu]

@Velocity

Can a single father raise daughters well? Why or why not?

The same logic applies to single mothers raising boys.

Uh, not necessarily. Gender roles and social expectations of behavior are still very different for males and females in our society. We can’t just take it for granted that the experience of raising a child as an opposite-sex single parent will be exactly equivalent, in terms of its difficulty, for single fathers with daughters and for single mothers with sons.

Mind you, I’m not arguing that either one of those scenarios necessarily is more difficult than the other, or even trying to guess which one seems likely to be more difficult. I’m just saying that since we don’t live in a gender-neutral world, we can’t take it for granted that opposite-gender single-parenting has the same difficulty level for both genders.

[Odesio]

@spamforbrains

As an aside from the economic problem, is it possible these people are objecting to the fact that a single woman is very unlikely to pressure a boy into becoming “macho” or enforcing other strange cultural beliefs about restrictions around what men and boys are allowed to do and think?

“Come back with your shield or on it.” --Spartan mother to her son as he heads off to fight.

I’m not convinced women are all that less likely to encourage their boys to be macho or behave as they think men should. Growing up I knew one kid whose mother got him a subscription to Playboy because there wasn’t a man around the house and another whose mother dropped him off behind a 7-11 shouting words of encouragement for him to kick another kid’s ass. Yeah, it was really weird to see an adult doing that.

I tend to think the problems associated with single parenthood are those associated with poverty.

[Velocity]

@Odesio

“Come back with your shield or on it.” --Spartan mother to her son as he heads off to fight.

Yeah - and also Japanese mothers in, or before, WWII who scolded their children for crying - “(If you cry over something trivial like this,) how will you cope when you lose your arm in combat?”

[Kimstu]

For what it’s worth, some very new and provisional research seems to indicate that the children of lesbian couples are doing just fine.

A series of studies in Canada and elsewhere over the past decade has found that the children of lesbians aren’t just well-adjusted – they excel. On average, kids with two moms seem to be more confident and less aggressive than those raised by a mom and a dad. They are open-minded, affectionate and less susceptible to anxiety and depression.

There seems to be no difference in the positive outcomes based on the sex of the child. And given that lesbians tend to earn more than straight women but less than straight men, it’s probably not socioeconomic factors improving the outcomes for lesbian couples vs. heterosexual ones.

So maybe the takeaway is that women can raise boys just fine, as long as there are two of them doing the raising?

[Cyberhwk]

I think the idea is that men and women have different approaches to solving problems, social interactions, etc. and the lack of a father figure around means a boy is learning strategies that aren’t going to necessarily line up optimally with the ways the male brain thinks and acts.

I haven’t the slightest clue about the racial aspect.

[Maastricht]

Cyberhawk, if there was a “male brain” way, there would’t be so many cultural differences in maleness across the globe. Maleness is, to a much larger extent then believed, a cultural concept.
https://geert-hofstede.com/national-culture.html

[Nava]

Interesting site, even though it took me a few pokes to get it to jump the way I wanted (to see information from different countries, it’s under “Tools”).

[asahi]

@GlowingDarkness

I’ve heard this from quite a lot of people. This is mainly directed at the African American community in the US. They say that single women cannot raise boys to be “men” and that only men can do it because the female experience is different from the male.

I understand that there are differences between men and women but do they make it difficult for a women to raise boys or is it just that women and men have been conditioned to believe otherwise?

My belief is that raising a child (whether your male or female), in a single household when your living in poor conditions is very difficult.

I personally was raised by a single mother as an only child. She was not a strict person who used corporal punishment (a bit when I was younger), but she was firm and fair. She always used to tell me that If I was mature enough to understand consequences and that if I was behaving badly or committed an offense, she would just kick me out or let the law deal with me. I think that’s fair. I am a respectable adult today. I don’t think I missed out much on not having a father.

I’ve known more than a few men raised by single mothers. Single women are more than capable of raising boys or girls, or both.

What can make parenting more challenging for single parents is having to take on multiple jobs, thus leaving less time for active parenting.

[Shodan]

@Kimstu

For what it’s worth, some very new and provisional research seems to indicate that the children of lesbian couples are doing just fine.

There seems to be no difference in the positive outcomes based on the sex of the child. And given that lesbians tend to earn more than straight women but less than straight men, it’s probably not socioeconomic factors improving the outcomes for lesbian couples vs. heterosexual ones.

I take your point, but how do lesbian households with children compare with heterosexual households with children in terms of income?

So maybe the takeaway is that women can raise boys just fine, as long as there are two of them doing the raising?

Is there data on outcomes for gay male couples raising children? IOW does it matter if it is two women raising children, two men raising children, or one man and one woman?

Regards,
Shodan

[TriPolar]

@Shodan

I take your point, but how do lesbian households with children compare with heterosexual households with children in terms of income?
Is there data on outcomes for gay male couples raising children? IOW does it matter if it is two women raising children, two men raising children, or one man and one woman?

I think your previous cites show this isn’t an issue of the number or variety of parents. Assuming all parents are concerned and responsible socio-economic factors would dominate.

[even_sven]

Nm

[Fretful_Porpentine]

@Kimstu

For what it’s worth, some very new and provisional research seems to indicate that the children of lesbian couples are doing just fine.

There seems to be no difference in the positive outcomes based on the sex of the child. And given that lesbians tend to earn more than straight women but less than straight men, it’s probably not socioeconomic factors improving the outcomes for lesbian couples vs. heterosexual ones.

While I’d agree that same-sex couples are just as good at raising children as heterosexual ones, I think there are some other confounding factors in play. For example, it’s fairly common for heterosexual couples to have children that are unplanned or flat-out unwanted, or to have more children than they really have the time and resources to care for. Pretty much the only situations where I can imagine this happening to a lesbian couple is if one of them gets pregnant as a result of rape, or if they unexpectedly have to take in the children of a relative who dies or is unable to care for them. So all things being equal, they seem far more likely than heterosexual couples to be parents because they want to be, and to have exactly as many children as they want.