I’m not suggesting that there should or shouldn’t be, of course, just why the separation, different school, etc. Why keep them distinct? Or can a Supply officer move into the “regular” Navy at some point and I’m missing something?
Are you asking about the US Navy? You didn’t clarify.
There is no separation in the USN.
Yes, I meant the US Navy. It was briefly mentioned in another thread and Wikipedia has articles on the Navy Supply Corps and School.
There are many schools in the navy, including an academy and a Seal team school. They are all Navy.
There are what are called “unrestricted line officers”, and then there are restricted line (or staff) officers such as Supply Corps, Civil Engineer Corps, Information Dominance Corps, or Medical Service Corps. An unrestricted line officer is eligible for command at sea, while a restricted line officer is not. Basically, a restricted or staff officer is a specialist in a non-combat field.
And that in turn evolved out of the historic legacy that in Ye Olde Days you’d assemble the crew out of on the one hand actual seafarers that would sail the ship, and on the other people with trade knowledge who were not necessarily seafarers but who you needed to run other necessary jobs like healing people, fixing equipment, purchasing, managing accounts etc. It was of course wise to give those people provisional warrants or commissions so they’d be able to give orders if needed and have proper rights if captured in war, and as time went on, they became fully incorporated into the service and given regular ratings and commissions, identified as within specific specialty corps with their own career tracks.
Oven on land the Army has itself a whole bunch of specialty corps and categories – Medical, Nursing, Engineers, JAG, Transportation, etc. – and broad classifications such as (at least when I was in) Combat Arms, Combat Support and Service Support, with their own career tracks as well within the service.
Which is not to say that, especially at the level of smaller units or vessels, you will not have line or other branch officers have to fill in doing some of the administrative functions - in fact that is part of the career development of an officer, becoming familiar with the different things that need to be done for the unit to function. And on land stations of the different services you will see staff corps officers as post commanders (after all, it’s not like you need to know how to steer Fort Buchanan in a gale).
Ah, I get you. That makes sense now that I stop and think about it. Question answered for me, anyway.
My Dad had a USN EDO (engineering duty only) Commission as an Ensign, based on his Merchant Marine license. There is a story behind that. I received a line commission based on my graduating from a Maritime academy. And that was dumb idea if they wanted to give me a commission it should have been EDO. The last thing the Navy needs is a colorblind Junior Officer of the Deck. One of my problem colors Red and shades of blue and green. I miss Identified a ship one night.
That’s really the answer here - unrestricted line officers are basically the combat “specialists” - naval aviators, surface warfare officers, submarine officers, SEAL officers. And as such, they’re eligible to command those units (and higher echelon units primarily composed of those types of units).
Restricted officers are more along the lines of supporting specialists to that mission - they are in charge of things that basically enable the fighting sailors- engineering, logistics, intelligence, medical, etc… Their sphere of command is limited to their own branch- i.e. a Captain/O6 in the medical corps is high-ranking, but he’s only eligible to command a medical unit, unlike a Surface Warfare O6 who could be promoted to Rear Admiral and command a larger formation, or command formations made of other types of units.
So the Naval Supply Corps and school is set up to provide logistical support to the fighting units, and officers in that branch are only eligible to command within that particular branch.
The other services do the same exact thing, but AFAIK it’s not actually codified. So in the Army, you have to be from one of the combat branches (Infantry, Artillery, Armor) to expect to command above a certain level. In the USAF, you essentially have to be a pilot to get higher command. In the USMC, you pretty much have to have been an infantry officer or a pilot, with (as I understand it) a heavy lean toward infantry.
An odd quirk about this is that an O-5 unrestricted line officer can be senior in command to an O-6 restricted officer in certain situations (such as combat ops). It’s also more difficult to reach the upper echelons in restricted fields, both for enlisted and officers (speaking from Navy experience). When I made Chief in the Seabees, I had 17 years in. An aviation type who made it the same day had seven years in. Critical ratings, doncha know. It’s almost unheard of for a CEC officer to reach the admiral ranks (there are presently only three), and even O-6 is difficult.
These previous threads may also be of interest:
I’m assuming tha the O5 would have overall unit command, and the O6 might be one of the staff officers within that unit?
That sort of difficulty in support branches does make sense; I used to work with a guy who was a retired USMC communications officer at full Colonel (O6). I had wondered why he didn’t end up a general, because he’s a pretty competent guy and I didn’t get the impression that his transition into civilian IT was entirely voluntary.
Then I looked at the size of the USMC and that they have a total of 62 generals of all ranks, and figure that the number of them reserved for communications positions are probably counted on one hand, if even that many. So an O6 in the communications branch in the USMC is pretty darned high up as such things go.
So if you know you’ll only ever get so far, why do it? (I know these officers serve and important function, I’m just slightly puzzled that there’s a limit on how far they can rise and that they’d be content with it).
A couple of reasons:
- They love the life.
- Civil Engineer Corps officers learn how to run one of the largest construction and maintenance companies in the world, how to manage multiple construction projects, how to lead men and women on their mission, how to deal with disciplinary problems, how to deal with balky supply lines from the other side of the world, etc. This translates very well to the private sector.
It’s the same for career NCO ranks. After I “retired”, I topped out as Chief Operating Officer of a construction company at $160K/yr in 2007 dollars.
I think the military has problems retaining medical personnel, though. Officers gain experience and then bolt for private sector money, even though they’re offered nice reenlistment bonuses (up to $60K). I can’t speak to supply corps or other staff officers, however.
Well, that’s a question you could ask of any hierarchical job. Why work as a mid-level manager in a company? Because companies only have one CEO, but might have hundreds of managers. It’s where the jobs are.
Some people might dream of being a CEO someday, but others have done the math, realized the vast majority of people will never be CEO, and have decided to focus on attainable goals.
This explains, to me at least, why a friend who was a Navy JAG left the Navy to join the Marines. She wanted to fight. I presume the Marines do things a little differently in this regard.
BTW
That has been renamed as Information Warfare — I suppose that “dominance” thing got people snickering…
Cut and paste from the intertoobs.
And the Navy has re-established Warrant Officer One (W-1) as the Navy’s only Warrant Officer One.
BTW, a little known fact is that, although Chief Warrant Officers are Warrant paygrades 2 through 5, they are, in fact, commissioned officers. I know it sounds odd, but hey, that’s the military for you.
Well, that’s rude. I’m sure they’re very nice people.