The internet is teeming with people dealing with heavy emotions, looking for a place to unload. Perhaps they are looking for a shoulder to cry on. Perhaps they are looking for general or specific advice. But ultimately they are just looking for a safe place to be vulnerable and process stuff.
Often these people mention having friends and close family, and they’ll say something like, “I just don’t feel comfortable talking to them about this.” So they turn to strangers, hoping that strangers will treat them better than people who actually know and love them. Which is kind of sad, but I guess also perfectly understandable.
What I DON’T understand is why it is so hard for people, both on the internet and in the real world, to provide that safe place. For every sad guy looking for comfort, there seems to be a toughie who tries his best to make the sad guy feel even worse about himself for having the feelings he has. Even when it’s obvious the sad guy doesn’t really need help in this department. Which then makes the sad guy even less inclined to talk to anyone. And then when we hear about someone imploding in the workplace or at school, we act shocked and horrified. We always talk about the failure of mental health services, but I think regular everyday people often have some blame as well.
What’s almost as bad as the toughie is the “sage on the mountaintop” type of advice-giver. The person who sees to have a stock platitude for every situation. I think most of us are familiar with the Christian sage, but there are variety of persuasions. Like, it seems to me that Buddhists tend to churn out the most obtuse “wisdom”. It’s almost as if they use confusion to separate themselves from the suffering of others while making themselves seem more pious and evolved. They are a lot nicer than the toughie, but they ultimately aren’t any more helpful. At least, as it appears to me.
What is it about humans that we seem to struggle with this so much? Do we need to be taught how to be more compassionate and comfortable with emotions, both our own and others? Seems to me that being a compassionate listener is a skill just like any other, useful not only in a social context, but also professionally. And since the internet has opened up the social sphere tremendously, perhaps we may need to develop some sensitivity that we perhaps didn’t need in the past?
We could caution people against seeking comfort and emotional validation from strangers on the internet. But that doesn’t fix the problem of friends and family also sucking in the compassion department.
House had it right: everybody lies. Nobody says, “I just want you to listen, don’t give me any damn advice.” When someone unloads, odds are they say a variation of “what should i do” or “I don’t know what to do” about 12-25 times. They never say “it’s rhetorical, shut up and just listen.”
I know someone like this and it drives me nuts. She doesn’t give bits of wisdom to anyone specifically (as far as I’m aware) but she posts crap on her facebook like “Depression is living in the past, you just need to be free” blah blah blah and I want to tell her that she’s an idiot for not knowing that depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain, a real illness, and you can’t just “be free.”
But as Superhal**** said it’s very difficult to just listen and not give advice. I think most people have the instinct to want to help and they don’t know how to say anything useful, so they say things that are unintentionally insensitive, rude, not helpful, not what the person is looking for, etc.
There are tons of situations where, what can you say? Like if someone’s unemployed and they’re telling you how much it sucks. You can agree with them that it sucks, but it’s hard not to also make suggestions for finding a job.
I started a thread about a friend of mine who’s constantly venting about this Swedish guy who does not want to pursue a relationship with her. I have absolutely no idea what to say to her. She is heartbroken and wants to spend the rest of her life pining over him. I guess this is something I could learn how to be more compassionate about, because I honestly do not understand how she feels, and offering advice has failed. And this isn’t just me- all of this girl’s friends are in the same boat with her.
It is hard to just be the listener, to empathize without being able (or trying) to make it better, and to not turn the conversation into something more comfortable (like something about me).
I once was a volunteer for an organization that supplied such people to the terminally ill and/or to the ill person’s loved ones. Our job was to be that neutral other person to whom they could unload all their troubles, to take it in without giving advice or trying to make it better. We had a 2-weekend training, plus a support group for the support-givers that met every week. I lasted two years before I burned out. I didn’t even have a particularly hard time of it, there were others that were more dedicated and who lasted longer. But it is not an easy thing to do.
I think I would have difficulty with this as well. I don’t do well with constant kvetchers or somone who seems to be “wallowing”, especially if the pain they are wallowing in is something I just can’t relate to.
I think just as good friends are those who listen without judgment (at least some times), they should also can express their emotional turmoil in a way that doesn’t alienate or burden others. If they find themselves always returning to the same sorrowful conversational topic, then maybe they need to seek professional counseling and give their close intimates a break. Because there’s only so many times one can say, “I’m sorry you feel that way. If there’s anything I can do, just let me know.”
How do you tell if someone is a ‘compassionate listener’ on a message board? I (gently) dispute your fundamental claim. It looks to me like there are significant numbers of replies intended to assuage, show sympathy and empathy to any poster in situations such as you describe.
Could it be that your listening is more attuned to one thing rather than another?
Obviously, everyone who starts a thread has an agenda, yourself included. Not trying to be an ‘internet tough guy’, just trying to point something out.
Not too long ago, when Quasimodem came back and graced us with his “journey that will lead me into the sunset of my life” post, people reacted quite admirably. Oh, there were more than a few people who gave out platitudes. Even they, I think, recognized what Quasi was doing and honored him with words they keep close to their hearts. To me, it was truly one of the more moving threads I’ve seen on the Dope.
Some people seem to be in denial of other peoples feelings. Like they need to deflect it for their own preservation? Maybe someone else’s vulnerability puts a crack in their own walls. Empathizing with someone else’s pain may make them recognize their own.
If I needed serious emotional help I would never ask for it on a general-purpose message board such as this one, despite the fact that I’ve always been treated well here. I would either find a special-purpose message board, or I’d find some way to get help in the real world.
I agree with Becky2844 and Roderick Femm that some bullies are so lacking in empathy that they filter everything said to them through their own fears. In order to ward off the bogeyman threatening their emotional well-being they need to do something to brick up that wall.
Ultimately the “fixers” and nay-sayers are probably also acting on their own fears. Do they empathize too much? Or have trouble differentiating their own feelings from other peoples’ feelings? The urge is there to do something, anything to stop the speakers pain or to silence it.
A lot of people don’t seem to understand that when someone is hurting it isn’t our job to fix it. I think a better approach is to bear witness to it and stand by a person while they work their miserable way through it. That’s not an easy thing to do.
But it’s a gift to allow someone to carry their own pain, I think. Even if it hurts you to watch it. 'Cuz just like we don’t diet until we start breaking buttons off our shirt, we often don’t make changes for the better in our way of living until not to do so hurts. We’re funny that way.
Afterthought. Feelings are facts. Whatever a person says he is feeling is probably what he is feeling unless there is some manipulation occurring.
That doesn’t always mean that the person experiencing distress has chosen well from the number of different ways he could be feeling. How much you want to help him discover that in a non-discounting way is up to you.
Well I don’t mean to sound like an asshole but when I have made a post as the OP describes I’m not really looking for either internet hugs or sympathy OR the annoyingly simplistic advice that always comes in a torrent(divorce your husband, get a hot new boytoy!).
I’m usually looking for advice from someone that has actually dealt with the situation, that they can say how they dealt with it or can say what worked for them or even to just say you know looking back I don’t even care anymore(or do care deeply) etc.
I’ve never made such a post just for affirmation, or to just unload on the digital void.
I often find it difficult to tell when someone needs compassion and when someone needs advice.
Personally, I don’t like it when someone responds with compassion and no advice. The only exception is if it’s something that’s already happened to me and I can’t do anything to change it. For example, if I tell them about the time I was assaulted and robbed, then I would expect compassion. Nothing I can do about whatever happened, and compassion would help me to feel less ashamed about it.
Otherwise, since I like getting advice, that is how I often respond to others. I don’t spend time validating feelings and just offer whatever advice I think they can use to fix their problem. I can’t tell if someone wants advice or compassion unless I’ve known them for sometime. And unless I know someone, my default response is advice.
And usually by the time I respond to a post on the SDMB, someone has already responded with compassion. There are few threads here where no one tried to make an OP looking for help feel better. When I post advice, I think that if it doesn’t help the OP, it can at least help other readers like me who are looking for advice.
I think many people offer advice and solutions because if someone is venting about a situation it a) may not be clear that they’re not asking for advice and b) it may be very obvious that there is some solution that they have not considered.
I think it’s rude and insensitive to offer platitudes and try to “fix it” if something irreversible such as a death has occurred- or even following the break up of a long term relationship which can feel like a death. That’s a situation in which I think merely listening and being there is all one should do.
But for situations that can have a resolution (such as job hunting) I think it is normal to offer advice unless the person specifically says, or makes it clear otherwise, that they do not want it.
And as monstro**** said- some people do need professional help if they’re just venting and wallowing about the same thing and do not respond to any solutions, advice, whatever. Again, death is different, but even then sometimes people may need the help of a grief counselor.
Lakai also hits it right on the head- it is sometimes difficult to tell when someone needs advice or merely compassion.
Most times when I have posted “woe is me” type of posts, I’m looking for advice rather than affirmation. Even when I’m miserable. As long as it is concrete (no “sage on a mountaintop” Hallmarkianisms) and practical, I will appreciate it. And as long as it is delivered with compassion/sympathy rather than bullying or negativity. Such as anything that is prefaced with, “No offense but…” or “Not to be a jerk but…” As well as any post that belittles or invalidates my feelings. A feeling can’t be reasoned with. It’s not “wrong”–it just is.
I frequently see people bash others for simply feeling a certain way, as if it is possible to shame someone into feeling the “right” way. This is the kind of behavior that I don’t understand. It’s not such much giving advice as much as how it is delivered.
I get feeling this way, but I don’t get the inability to put yourself in another person’s shoes and bite your tongue. When people tell me about a problem, my first instinct is to fix it too, but the person’s likely frustrated and venting because they’ve already tried to fix their problem and it isn’t working. Let’s take your unemployment example - do you really think the person hasn’t tried LinkedIn, or gone to a networking event, or tried industry-specific career sites, or telling their friends they’re looking for work, or blah blah blah? Think about what you’re going to say and ask yourself if your advice would be the top result in an about.com article if you were to Google it. If so, they are tired of hearing your lame-ass “advice.” They’re venting because nothing is working and they’re upset about it and want to talk. Just tell them you understand, it sucks, and relate to them as best as you can.
That’s nice, but some people do just want to talk about things and have their feelings validated. There is a difference between seeking advice and just venting your frustrations because it feels good to talk, and it really shouldn’t hard to recognize the distinction between the two. If I’m whining about something on a message board, 9 times out of 10 I’m asking for advice, and will usually say upfront what I’ve already done in an effort to avoid people suggesting something I’ve already tried, but that’s just how I roll. I’m not everyone.
I think part of it is that we are all so wrapped up in our own lives we don’t really know how to actively listen to others. We just wait to talk, or give our own opinions, or try to one up the person, or act out or own unresolved issues through the other person. Active, other person oriented listening is not something people are good at. Plus I think a lot of us want to pretend life is a lot more organized, happy and easy to manage than it really is. A sad person with a problem that can’t be fixed throws a wrench in that delusion.
What do other people consider good skills in this area? Even with therapists I have run into problems where they either were trying to live in a delusional world where every problem had an easy answer, or they were acting out their own issues through me (rather than listening to me), or they try to tell me what to think because they assume if I think what they want me to think it will fix my emotional response, etc. It made me feel even more isolated and invalidated.
Just having someone truly understand how your life sucks makes it suck less. And, in my experience, that extra support usually makes it easier to find a real solution.
I’ve also noticed in times when I try to be a better listener, I feel less alone myself. The act of being a good listener makes you feel less isolated, even though you are trying to make the other person feel less isolated.
I think the answer is that people are varied. Not everyone needs to hear what you need to hear. Some people feel the overpowering need to challenge others because that’s what has helped them to move forward in life.
Sometimes you hear the advice you need to hear a dozen times before you either hear it, at just the right moment, or in just the right tone or words, so it gets through.
Just because you see it as confusing, or stock, or unhelpful doesn’t mean it is for everyone reading it.
I suspect most do. How many people, really, post “suck it up, cupcake”? Not a lot, and not a very high percentage, I’m thinking.
Also, “suck it up” can be the solid bracing advice some people are actually looking for. (Just like your parents provided - a little venting, a little sympathy, and then they tell you that you still have to go to school.)
