That’s gotta be it. If any of them had any inkling of what was going to happen, they would’ve fought like hell.
As for security, I don’t think an armed guard is the key. Then there’s already a gun on board, and 2 guys could figure out a way to take that gun away from him.
I’m thinking of a security door to the cockpit. Pilots board the plane, secure the door, and it doesn’t get opened again, for any reason, until the plane lands.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by spooje *
**
That’s my wife’s guess for the plane of the not-too-distant future–the cockpit will be completely sealed off from the passenger cabin.
They’re already talking about having air marshals on board most flights, and people were pointing out that security checks at US airports are trivially simple compared to countries like Israel.
As I said in the pit, it’s fine if you think airports need to tighten security.
however, six months from now, if they do so, please have the courtesy not to be griping and complaining because you can’t get on the plain immediately or because they want to examine your carry-on luggage.
Airport security, IMHO, has always been a joke in this country.
If any doper here is in this kind of work, I apologize for the generalizations, but in my experience, the collective lot of them seem to be too stupid to work the drive thru at a fast food restaurant. And that is insulting the fast food people.
Airport Security pays minimum wage or slightly higher. This amount attracks the kind of caliber people one would expect.
In Germany ( Frankfurt) armed soldiers patrol the airport. It is very very disconcerting and very very very comforting.
[sidebar]
Hubby and coworker were finishing a business trip in Frankfurt. Hubby was going up north, driving, in germany to visit family for the weekend. Coworker was flying to Sweden on business. He handled international business. He had one of those metal suitcases that contained samples of the work the company does, for demonstration.
He was asked to leave the plane and on the tarmack, circled by security, asked (in german, which he does not understand, that is why my husband was along on the trip.) what was in the locked metal suitcase. Our friend (an extraodinarily patient person) kept on stating it was for work, he was traveling on business. The language gap was becoming very problematic, Our friend was losing his temper ( this is after about a half hour on the tarmack - the plane departed)
Some how our friend managed to get it through to this head guy that my husband was possibly still on the airport property ( at Hertz) and had him paged. Now, how often do you pay attention to airport pages? My husband -Mr. Disney Land between his ears - actually did hear it and came booking to the area he was told to. In a matter of moments, Mr. Ujest got to the heart of the matter and cleared up any problems.
Too everyone’s releif.
As they were leaving, the head soldier grinned called after our friend, saying in *perfect english * “You’re passport is well traveled. We have to be careful with guys like you. You can go now.”
Our friend, who was scared as shit, mad as hell, and (when his nerves settled) very happy that Germany took such measures, said that every time he goes through security here in the US now, he knows what a joke the system is here.
[/sidebar]
I’m one of those who don’t complain now about the existing airport security when I go through it, in the sense of I don’t whine when they ask to examine my carry on, or double check the bag that’s been sitting unattended next to me and ask everyone around about it.
I do complain about airlines that let people board at the last minute: how can you adequately screen them and their luggage? Or hell, many of the airports I’ve been at… all you have between you and the gate-area is a chain-link fence. Those are areas that I’ve always felt needed more security. And I’m sure if I sat a moment, I could come up with more things I’ve personally spotted over the years.
But back to armed guards, etc.:
If you seal off the cockpit area, then what happens if one of the pilots goes rogue? Or a medical emergency? How can outside help get into the cockpit then?
But I do like the idea JCThunder proposed. Perhaps take it a bit further, and then double check those photos against a criminal database, similar to how those ‘big brother’ security cameras work. The privacy concerns however… I dunno.
<< The information went data way! >>
According to recent news reports, the hijackers murdered several flight attendants and passengers in order to get the pilots to turn over control of the planes. A weapon doesn’t have to be big and scary to be lethal, and a slit throat will kill you just as dead as a bullet will.
In flight security is the issue here, since these guys probably could have done the same thing with bare-hands and bomb threats, neither of which can be stopped at the airport…
Air Marshals are one answer…If we get enough of them on enough flights, that is…but it will expensive…
Having weapons availible in the cockpit and training the crew to use them is another, signifigantly cheaper, and probably safer, option…
Perhaps even just a good, stout door, with a panic button that seals the crew in until an airport official lets them out…
I’m sure there are others…
:: applauds :: Very well said. We must not let this atrocity influence our behaviors or policies, or the terrorists will have won.
Fenris
Sheesh, we don’t need security like Israel - Holland or the U.K. would do.
While the concerns about airport security are quite valid, IMO, this morning I’m thinking more about command/control/communications.
The Solicitor General of the United States, who is the #2 or #3 guy in the Justice Department, knew that the plane out of Dulles was being hijacked - his wife was on it, and called him from her cell phone - and apparently there was no way for him to turn that info into any sort of useful warning.
When the Dulles ATCs lost the plane’s transponder signal, but still had it on radar and were worried about its movements, they let the people in the tower at National Airport know, because it was headed in their direction. And that apparently was pretty much what they could do, besides continue to monitor the situation.
It doesn’t seem like there was anywhere for these bits of information to go.
I think you’re right. I have a feeling the passengers never knew the hijackers’ true intentions. Except…well, I wonder if the passengers or pilot on the 4th plane that went down in Penn. figured it out (or the hijackers let something slip) and took the plane down rather than let it reach its target.
There’s another issue here that I don’t believe has been addressed, perhaps because it is tangential to the main point. The terrorists that forced the pilots to relinquish the controls must have had flight training somewhere. Now I’ve no real idea how one becomes a commercial pilot, how one goes about getting trained, or the security measures in place to make sure the “wrong” people don’t get trained. At any rate, these procedures could apparently use some scrutiny, too.
http://www.stratfor.com has some interesting analysis pieces on the intelligence and security messes that came into play here.
According to CNN last night, the confiscated evidence form the car the FBI siezed yesterday included Arabic language flight training manuals.
The also said that because one of the flight attendants on one of the flights had called in and given a seat number for one of the highjackers, they had determined that two of the terrorists were brothers, one of which was a pilot.
Just wanted to say that I started a Pit thread on a similar topic last night. Actually, I think we should stop blaming airport security, or, better yet, apportion them less blame than they are receiving.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=86623
I heard more than once today that there was some kind of signal from cockpit of the fourth plane, and one of the pilots allegedly said, “We’ve got a way out of this; we’re going to do something”, meaning ditch the plane rather than comply.
True patriot.
There were people on CNN today from airline safety groups or something, and they were railing on the FAA, the government, airports… They had all kinds of things about how they had been ignored and what steps should have been and still must be taken.
I know there are changes to be made, but is anyone else bothered by those who start pointing fingers and laying blame before we have even buried our dead? This isn’t a time for agendas. If you want to make change, good. But nothing would have stopped this completely. An armed guard on every flight? He would have just been the first to die. More searches? They’ll kill with pens or some other everyday object that can stab. And do you really think you can do a background check thorough enough that professional terrorists can’t beat it somehow?
Don’t have time to do a search, but I believe there was a Pit thread a few months ago where someone saw an unattended bag, and ripped its owner a new one when she came back to it.
[funny]The late Rosaline, who hadn’t flown since the '70s, flew to DC for the VE day 50th anniversary. (She was a Wave.) “Did you pack your bags yourself?” “Yes.” “Have they been left unattended?” “No.” “Did anyone give you any gifts?” “[looks around excitedly]No! Are you giving us stuff, like free umbrellas?”[/funny]