usually the threat alone will suffice
According to this site, you’re both wrong - it’s the Ulster Unionists, formed in 1905. The same year as Sinn Fein. The Labour Party were formed in 1912:
Seems like they all claim to be the oldest. Here’s Sinn Fein’s site:
And here’s the Ulster Unionists:
Maybe they all ought to have a big war to sort out who’s right?
When you push a people for fifty years don’t be surprised when nasty stuff happens when they start pushing back.
… no, seriously, i was being fascicious re the DCB reference.
The Six counties of NI voted to stay within the Union, and the Partition was agreed upon, as the Protestant majority feared a Catholic dominated free republic, hence the reason for Northern Ireland.
The state of Northern Ireland follows no historical or geographical boundaries and the majority of the island of Ireland voted to sever links with the UK (in the long-term) why does the preference of the majority of an entirely arbitary man-made entity over-ride the wishes of the majority?
In the words of an early leader of Northern Ireland it was designed to be “A Protestant land for a Protestant people”. And those weren’t idle words, they meant it.
No not so simple ,partition created a civil war in the 26 counties, and nothing is more divisive than a civil war, and it left 40 percent of catholics in the 6 counties totally exposed and disenfranchised,and subjected to gerrymander,discrimation ,and sectarian riots. It also created possible the worst evil two confessional states.
Remember since the 9th/11th century IRELAND was one country,one religion,one language,one people.BRITIAN especially since HENRY VIII,sought to destroy IRELAND its language,its religion, its people, BRITIAN started the planation of SCOTS AND ENGLISH PROTESTANTS which meant catholics were driven off their lands, Catholics became non citizens,with no rights whatsoever,they just didnt exist,ethnic cleansing had begun,and in 1845/1850 THE GREAT STARVATION,euphemistically called the FAMINE,there was no famine 8 boatloads of food per day were leaving irsh ports,by 1850 over 1 million died of starvation and another 1.5 million either deported or escaped to other countries IRELAND had a pop of 8 million in the 19th century,by the time britian had finished it was 4.5 million,*THE IRISH HOLOCAUST.
*
Even to this day IRELAND IS THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, WITH A POPULATION 60 PERCENT LESS, THAN IT WAS 150 YEARS AGO.
I could go on ad infinitum… but is there any point
The good and positive thing to come out of this horror , is that to-day 70 million people, claim irish blood,we have an empire; and not one drop of blood was spilt in getting it.
Now there is something that I didn’t know.
You are totally wrong,there was no elections in the 6 counties BRITIAN picked the 6 counties because of the protestant majority, and this was soley due to the plantation of scot and english planters 300 years earlier. It would be advisable to get an objective history book and the truth will set you free.
How are these different? “Ulster is part of Ireland, so whatever the majority of Irish voters choose should control what happens in Ulster regardless of what the local majority wants” and “Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, so whatever the majority of UK voters choose should control what happens in Ireland regardless of what the local majority wants”. Unless a majority of people in Ulster choose to be part of Ireland it’s no different than Ireland being forced to be part of the UK.
Ulster has always been physically and historically part of Ireland, Ireland has not always been part of the UK.
Northern Ireland is not Ulster, the historical Ulster contains an extra three counties and the only history Northern Ireland has is from when it was artificially created to satisfy the local Protestant majority in 1921.
The area covered by Northern Ireland is historically part of Ireland.
Most certainly not SINN FEIN FORMED BY ARTHUR GRIFFTHS 1900 SINN FEIN IS EASILY THE OLDEST POLITICAL PARTY IN PRESENT DAY IRELAND
Sorry IRELAND WAS for at least 8 centuries totally indepentant of britian until it was annexed by force of arms by the ENGLISH…ARE YOU TRYING TO RE-WRITE THE HISTORY BOOKS
Indeed IRELAND was the only country in EUROPE to keep alive religion,order,education indeed civilation during the dark ages after the retreat of the romans,you know of course the romans never came to IRELAND. and this civilisation they brought to scotland and northern england,and you also know that scotus was the mistakenly name given to scots when the romans meant ireland and it was ireland who colonised scotland from IONA.,AND BROUGHT TO THEM CIVILISATION AS THEY DID TO THE NORTH OF ENGLAND AS FOR EXAMPLE KING OSWALD OF NORTHUMBRIA WAS EDUCATED BY THE IRISH MONKS IN IONA and that influence went as far as wessex.
As a matter of interest what is a daisy cutter
And if the English made the equally true claim that Ireland is historically part of the United Kingdom would you agree? Events that happened nine hundred years ago mean nothing in comparison to the reality of what the situation is now.
It’s a true tragedy. All those centuries of keeping education, culture, and learning alive. And judging from the evidence, it all disappeared the day before you were born.
Tell me how could THE UNIONIST PARTY HAVE EXISTED IN 1905 WHEN PARTITION DIDNT COME TILL 1922…you are refering to a council not a political party
ARTHUR GRIFFITHS FORMED SINN FEIN IN 1900/01…BUT IT FOUGHT ELECTINS IN 1905
So I ***CAN *** be arrested for investing in IRAs! :eek:
Northern Ireland was part of the rest of Ireland within living memory, your example of Ireland within the UK is entirely wrong as I explained above, Ireland was only part of the UK for a severely limited period of time, most of which was spent trying to get out of the union. The territory of Northern Ireland has always been part of Ireland, the partition of the island was simply a cynical and disastrous “solution” to the problem, and we all know where that solution led.
The “reality” of the situation now is that things are still not entirely settled, Northern Ireland is not like England where all the major territorial disputes have been resolved for a long time. Here the situation is still not resolved, and your “reality” could simply be viewed as a temporary arbiration as much as a conclusive finality.
While I actually agree that Northern Ireland is a gerrymandered territory that probably shouldn’t have come in to existence, Little Nemo does have a point of sorts. The history of Ireland as anything approaching a unitary entity does have a comparatively short history compared to Ireland as a possesion of the British crown. Heck, even Wales retained their independence longer.
Then again as a counter to Little Nemo one could argue that insomuch as Ireland was usually either a) ignored or b) treated more as a colonial possesion inhabited by subhuman barbarians, rather than as integral part of the kingdom as England’s French possesions between 1066 and 1453 ( or Calais to 1558 ), or indeed even Wales, that that long history of association is rather less meaningful than it might appear on the surface.
Factually incorrect. The Irish church and monastic institutions do have some impressive accomplishments to their name, but they were hardly unique. The cultural breakdown of western Europe the dark ages, while accurate enough in a few respects, is still too often exaggerated ( and it rather ignores the persistence of Byzantium ).
Not quite - really the appellation was originally perfectly apt. In Scotland ( then called Alba or Alban ) it was applied originally to those Irish from the Dal Riata dynasty ( itself possibly originally of Pictish origin ) of Ulaid who had settled what came to be known as Dalriada in the area around Kintyre ( not just Iona ). Scotland became a more general descriptor only slowly after Kenneth MacAlpin, king of the Scots of Dalriada gained the combined throne of Pictland to become kung of the Picts and Scots. At that the titles of his successors was more often Rex Pictorum ( the more important throne of the two ) or Alba. Only after a few generations did the name Scotia come to stick and it was reasonable from a political perspective, I guess.
They helped reintroduce/reinvigorate Christianity to pagan Anglo-Saxon England and perhaps helped foster the survival of literacy, but that is hardly entirely synonymous with civilization - the pagan Germans had their own version, afterall :).
Irish accomplishments were/are impressive, but let’s not start ascribing to them the literal mantle of saviors of civilization, as one popular book title has perhaps overheatedly suggested.
- Tamerlane