I don’t think anybody wants to take anything away from you. But I’d venture that the idea of a de-Christianized Christmas saddens most Christians.
Isn’t it only in the last, oh, maybe 150 years that Christmas has become so huge? It was always big in the Catholic traditions, but many Protestant religions didn’t even celebrate it.
People don’t mess with easter because the easter Bunny will get way pissed and go after their hides.
What puzzles me is why Bill O’Reilly is so taken with this issue. Any clues?
But we aren’t de-Christianizing Christmas. We haven’t been particularly Christian for generations. We never celebrated Christmas as a Christian holiday, but rather as a holiday that is a part of our cultural heritage and the dominant form of the “winter holiday” that is celebrated in every temperate climate. It is as much our tradition as theirs, and we have as much a right to celebrate it as any Christian.
Not that it takes much to de-Christianize Christmas. You don’t really think they started putting trees in their houses out of Christian piety, do you? I’ll give you a hint- none of the stuff we do at Christmas appears in the Bible. Europeans have been having a celebration at around this time, with a lot of familiar accouterments, since before Christ was but a twinkle in God’s eyes. I am merely celebrating what my family has always celebrated, from last years orange-jello-with-shredded-carrots and gifts of digital cameras to my ancient ancestor’s naked cavorting around bonfires (or whatever they did back then.)
I resent being told that I have no right to this part of my heritage. I resent being told that only the Christians can “own” Christmas. I don’t care how they celebrate it, so why are they so worked up about how I do? I won’t take Christ out of their Christmas if they promise not to stick it in mine.
Who told you that you have no right to this part of your heritage? I am skeptical that someone actually told you this.
He’s an irrepressible ratings whore.
He’s “energizing his base”, so to speak.
-Richard
Well, Bill O’Rilley and everyone involved in this contrived “Save Christmas!” BS.
“40” is the word the ancient Israelites used to mean “a lot”. K’know, kind of like Watership Down, where “five” means “many”.
But Advent is supposed to be a penitential season as well. That certainly hasn’t stopped Christmas from being commercialized.
Why? If Christmas were seen as a strictly Christian holiday, it wouldn’t mean there were more people who were Christian, it would just mean that there are less people celebrating Christmas. Why does someone else’s secular Christmas make you feel sad? What does it take away from your religious Christmas?
Makes you wonder what Christmas would be like under their supervision. Prayers for the conversion of their enemies? Adoration of the stillborn? Whatever, I imagine it’d be a grim totalitarian caricature. Probably with very little drinking and maximum subjugation of women.
Actually, Ascension is celebrated 40 days after Easter and celebrates the ascent of Jesus into heaven. Pentecost happens 10 days after Ascension (50 days after Easter), and does commemorate the descent of the Holy Spirit over the Apostles.
Gah! You’re right! I was so concerned with the time frame between Ascension and Pentecost I miscalculated. Bad lapsed Catholic! Bad! 
Heh…never mind. I made the same mistake in my post about 40 and thought you were responding to me…
I don’t know if this has anything to do with it, but the Roman Church, of which most American Christian sects have departed/evolved from places more of an emphasis on Christmas than Easter, whereas the Orthodox Church places more emphasis on Easter. (Or so I learned in 9th grade history.)
The logical progression (i.e., my WAG) I get from this is that since Christmas is more widely celebrated and celebrated with more emphasis in America, it became more commercialized for the sake of selling goods to those who celebrate it.
In the article that Anna Neville cited, the actual penitential actions listed seem to be not having lots of instrumental music and decorating sparsely, neither of which were really observed at my church (which isn’t to say they weren’t supposed to be observed.) For the purposes of explanation, I learned that Advent was about encouraging your faith, hope, charity, and whatever that fourth candle stood for, although according to this educational site, fasting was observed six weeks before christmas, then shortened to the current four weeks of Advent, although the fasting was eventually dropped. It seems to me that the fasting stopped before the commercialization of Christmas, although that is my interpretation of the text.
As opposed to Advent, Lent is still taught by the (Catholic) Church as a time to fast/do good chores/give up sweets as atonement for our sins and to understand Jesus’ self sacrifice through out own sacrifices. (Disclaimer: YMMV between congregations.) No one really celebrates Easter unless you’re Christian, but many non-Christians celebrate Christmas. I don’t particularly know why, but because Lent and Easter are only celebrated within the Church, I suppose it needs less defending? The phrase Happy Easter isn’t very common anyway.
I don’t know. RC churches in the US tend to have the biggest production values around Easter. 
I grew up in Louisiana, where Mardi Gras and Ash Wednesday are a HUGE deal all over the state, and an official holiday. We got time off from schooland everything. When I later attended school elsewhere, I was appalled that we didn’t get this consideration - I had believed time off for partying and recuperation was universal.
Now, the New Orleans carnival has become extremely secularized (this is not true of several locations in the state). Mardi Gras is spreading, with parades and celebrations in several cities in many states. But it isn’t the purple, green, and gold of religious association, but the red-eyed haze of secularization which has caused this popularity. Carnivale in Rio is another good example (although FAR less extensive) of the secularization of the beginning of Lent.
By the by, red was officially added, in Louisiana, at least, as a Mardi Gras color in the 80’s or early 90’s. As it clashed horribly, it wasn’t adopted by most folks.
Although it may have begun as a religious holiday, it has become accepted as something completely different. Fine by me. Same with every holiday. I’m sure followers of Mithras were royally pissed when Jesus usurped his birthday. Oestre got off easy, by comparison.
“Successful celebrations will be justified by and made to conform to the dominant paradigm” - Ava’s first rule of partying.
But Mardi Gras was never a religious holiday, and that was the point. It was a big pagan blowout before Lent began on Ash Wednesday.
Yeah, a big pagan blowout for Catholics . Actual pagans, protestants, atheists, and others who don’t stop eating meat, binge drinking, and partying during Lent have no other reason to do it, other than, “Hey, that looks fun! Let’s all join in!”.
Speaking as one who couldn’t give a rat’s ass about it, one way or the other, naturally…