I agree completely and am glad to see this posted. Precisely for the aspects described in bump’s post, I haven’t wanted to say something similar. Also, I haven’t really followed or participated on many message boards and I don’t know if that kind of immature smart-assery is typical behavior. Even if it is, there’s no excuse for some of the stupid shit I see here all the time, especially considering the focus (fight ignorance). It’s a fucking embarrassment at times is what it is.
On (some) other message boards, that’s ALL there is. It’s not unknown here at SDMB, but it’s not typical.
It’s typical for some, but I’ll concede that they’re not majority here. I’ve never used social media much, mostly because of the smart-assery. Look, most of you have been here a lot longer than I have, so I don’t need to tell anyone about trolling and similar. I know this board’s been through a lot and maybe it’s something that can’t be avoided. Just kind of disappointing because of the focus, as I mentioned above.
a lot of message boards are specific to one topic such as guitars, motorcycles, a sports team, etc. Most of the ones I’ve seen don’t have a lot of bad posters and the moderators do a good job of cleaning up and banning the really bad posters.
And this is 100% true: "It doesn’t matter; we have a large contingent of seemingly bitter, angry, sarcastic smart-asses who despite being decades out of college, still seem to delight in showing how smart they are relative to others. "
^^^ this.
A lot of what gets posted here is in depth, requiring contemplation of what’s being read. That’s part of how it manages not to be an echo chamber of people who already agree with each other saying stuff they know will get likes. There are a lot of people here with whom I disagree and dissent but I respect the hell out of most of them. In part for being here and participating. They could be hiding out elsewhere in spaces where no one’s going to challenge what they way. Instead they’re here and they are prepared to defend their positions against those of us who challenge them. And to challenge me in return.
Sigh.
No. It’s none of those things. None at all.
It’s not popular because of two things.
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We don’t have daily updates on the front page. Without new content several times per day there’s little reason for people to form a habit of coming here. Like it or not, STM is still treating The Straight Dope as a weekly traditional newspaper column. But we don’t run in any newspapers. There’s no specific outreach marketing efforts being made to bring new people in. We’re relying on luck and luck alone to support the declining user base.
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Look, I was in publishing for almost 20 years. ALL subscription bases are in a constant state of decay. Periodicals track that through reports called ‘Expiration Inventory’ which tracks how many readers we can expect to drop off each week/month/quarter. You then go into marketing knowing that if you wish to grow your business you need to get X*1.1 or whatever to bring in more than we can expect to go away due to disinterest/death/whatever. Right now we are still seeing poster decay while making no effort at all to bring new people in.
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I know there’s a strong instinct here, among our loyal user base, in believing that we at the SDMB are somehow special or different. But we’re really not. Reddit is far more popular. Quora is far more popular. Yes, there’s a feeling that they don’t do as good a job at covering items in depth. Fine. But for most people - 98%? More? They do as good a job as those people WANT. That’s the only bar that matters. Why should people stay here when they can get what they want at another, more popular site or, hell, just by Googling? We may have subject matter experts, sure, but so do other sites and they market and present them more aggressively.
Without daily content updates designed to flow people through to the SDMB we’re going to be fighting with one foot in a bucket. STM is willing to carry us based on our perceived potential future value in a turnaround so long as we break even. We do that. Fine. But we’re not going to make any real gains without them deciding to commit to our growth. And, especially right now, they’re having trouble just staying afloat. I’ve been there. It’s not a rich place and they’re constantly looking for new investments. But, as a man who has owned and bought and sold newspapers, I wouldn’t like to bet on the ability of a standalone, solo newspaper that can’t share expenses to last in even the medium term.
This, to me, is a feature, not a bug. Call it hostility or gatekeeping, but it’s a way to push back against Eternal September. The result is the Dope isn’t a lowest common denominator meme factory. I don’t want to sift through “How is babby formed?” grade content.
I enjoy the Dope being a place where smart people have semi-logical arguments and at least try to be rational and rely on evidence. If I cared about displaying my smartness I’d join Mensa. If I felt delight from slam-dunking on morons I’d be on Facebook.
(And, if you’re not occasionally angry or bitter, you’re not paying attention.)
Was it really necessary to start your post with that? What impression do you think it gives users when a moderator does that? This thread should be an opportunity to consider users’ opinions for the purpose of improvement.
Users’ opinions for the purpose of improvement have nothing to do with the ideas expressed in that post.
The sigh was appropriate.
Ooh, I gotta find out what I am.
What’s that test called again, the Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Test?
Let me throw out another reason RE the OP.
I often run across a term or concept that I am unfamiliar with. 10 or 20 years ago, I’d say to myself, “Self, you should post a question on SDMB, and you’ll get some answers.”
But with the explosion of info available on the internet today and the advent of Google and its near-human understanding of questions, I try that source first. Damn, there’s the answer. Why bother the overworked and under-loved Dopers and put up with their sarcastic, esoteric and self-referential comments?
I wish. The Meyers-Briggs fantasy doesn’t have the accuracy of MMMT.
See what I mean?
Interestingly, most posters in this thread joined 18-20 years ago.
Not timing out on every other click might help.
I’m not saying we should treat doofuses with kid gloves, but rather that in my 20-ish years here, I’ve seen a LOT of people chime into threads with excellent points, but let’s say… sub-standard composition of their post, and sometimes sub-standard grammar, and they get LIT up because their point isn’t super well organized, or their spelling/grammar isn’t correct. And that’s their last post- they may have something worthwhile to add, but get a homonym wrong, and they get ridiculed or pedantically corrected about grammar, the title of the organization they’re talking about, or the meaning of an acronym, and I’m sure they think “Fuck this, what a bunch of assholes.” and leave. And I don’t mean they’re borderline illiterate or anything, just otherwise educated people who aren’t used to our level of language “structure” (for lack of a better term), or our level of argumentative discourse.
And don’t get me started on the pillorying of anyone who’s right of left-center. I’m not particularly conservative, and I frequently get attacked and flat-out told I’m wrong, because I don’t toe the progressive party line around here. Someone to the right of me is bound to end up one of two ways- gone, or a sort of argumentative troll like a lot of our conservative posters over time.
Personally, I think this is a horrible consequence of our user base. Who cares if someone’s posts aren’t at least bachelor’s level English? Or if they’re not quite as informed as we are? That may be an advantage, or at the very least, illuminating. I mean, wouldn’t it be nice to get first-hand accounts of what life is like in Trumper-World, without a lot of second/third-hand accounts from people we know or have known in the past.
I don’t recall seeing too much “pillorying” just because of someone’s stated political position. do you have a good example of this to show us?
I don’t recall seeing too much “pillorying” just because of someone’s stated political position. do you have a good example of this to show us?
Re: OP
Maybe the reason is the pit?
If someone doesn’t know local “culture”, it could be somewhat off-putting to see, for example, a thread in which someone who seems to be afraid for their live (rightfully so) being made fun of and seen as “hysterical” or “over-reacting” just because a few people in their company died and others don’t see a need for protection for them.
No doubt there’s enough other sites on the internet that are just as bad, but that doesn’t make it any better, just more common.
I think **bump **makes a good point, although I would say the point goes a bit too far when it seems to argue that we shouldn’t pillory someone for supporting Trump. He is beyond the pale, and there’s no excuse for supporting that. But a never-Trumper with conservative views, even deeply conservative (but reasoned) views, ought to get a respectful audience IMO.
I would say he goes much too far in making that accusation. I would still like to see bump answer the question that Czarcasm posed in post #175.
It may be that there are such examples, but I don’t recall seeing any. Conservatives may feel maligned because they’re sometimes outnumbered, but I don’t recall any instances of conservative positions being treated with hostility just for being conservative, though there are lots of great examples of uninformed or obviously false or otherwise idiotic posts being treated with some of the usual SDMB snark on the main boards and totally shredded in the Pit.
I’m obviously not going to name any specific posters but let me use a couple of well-known politicians as examples, which come to mind because I recall seeing interviews with both of them in the recent past.
Rick Santorum comes across as either an uninformed idiot or someone who does a very good imitation of one, who constantly engages in lies and distortions, and whose social values date to approximately the 12th century.
OTOH, based on an interview I saw with Ben Sasse, the Republican junior senator from Nebraska, he appears well-informed and honest, and though I happen to disagree with him on almost every major matter of policy, he is articulate and his views are thoughtful and well-considered.
We have had conservative posters here who are somewhat analogous to one or the other, and in my view they are treated accordingly, and well within the rules of civility outside the Pit. We’ve also had liberal posters being bashed – and sometimes moderated – when they’re perceived to be excessively over the top.
It’s an old format, the front page looks tired and now that the weekly column has ended, there’s no new traffic coming in. Also, it skews old, white and male and is pretty casually accepting of some pretty shocking misogynistic and racist attitudes