Good Gosh Almighty. Yet another thread dealing with how Ralph Nadar is tearing apart the system by being popular enough to garner votes. Yeah, you can certainly tell how desperate the Gore supporters are getting. Stop Nadar at all costs! Impugn his character! Plead with him to get lost! The end of civilization as we know it is at hand if Gore does not win!
Look, I’m not even a Nader supporter. But I admire his tenacity and his willingness to get out there and make the case for himself. Even I, as far from the Green Party as anyone on this board, would never have come up with such a theory that his candidacy was all about increased speaking fees.
He wants to run for President. So does Buchanan. So did Perot. So did Bradley. So did McCain. Some drop out, some don’t get the votes, and some make it to the next level. And now people start coming out of the woodwork to stop him, not because they don’t like what he has to say (the ironic thing is that many of those trying to stop him agree with what he has to say!), but because he might have some effect on the election outcome.
Well, as Nadar responded to those who plead with him to quit. (Paraphrase from this morning’s paper) “Hey, you want me to quit so that Gore can be elected? I don’t want Gore to be elected!!. How long will it take you guys to figure out that my goal is not to accomodate the wishes of those who want a Gore presidency?”
Hell, I just might vote for Nader as a protest against the prevalent whiners. According to the latest theory, my vote for Bush (here in Gore-happy Maryland) is just being thrown away anyway. :rolleyes:
Hey, Dive- d’ya think there are any Nader Traders out there who would vote for Bush in a swing state in exchange for us two voting for Nader here in Maryland?
Yes. Are you unclear on the meaning of the word “can”?
You make him sound like Madonna! He’s never been a celebrity. I can’t think of a single movie he has starred in. Did he have his own sitcom in the eighties or something? :rolleyes
He doesn’t come across as too vain to me.
I seem to recall, Nader has been a political activist. Hmmm. Someone into politics running for political office. Yeah, sounds suspicious alright.
The Green party is fielding candidates in a number of elections.
Yes, John C – I think of Lincoln as a third party candidate. The Know-Nothings and Democrats had won previous presidential elections. Sure, the Republicans can from somewhere – just like some people today are saying the Green are just disaffected Dems and the Reformers are disaffected Republicans. If Perot had gotten more votes in 92, would you have considered the Republicans suddenly the third party?
So, Gore is a celebrity too? The Pope? Hitler? The Dali Lama? Milli the White House dog? All of them have written a book and appeared on TV. I don’t know if I’d call them celebrities though.
My definition of a celebrity is someone who is well known, not just an entertainer. Nader has hosted SNL, appeared on the tonight show etc that in my mind qualifies him as a celebrity. When I say a vanity campaign I just mean he has no chance and he knows it.
lemartel:When I say a vanity campaign I just mean he has no chance and he knows it.
Oh. Well, you might want to pick a different term, then, because most people wouldn’t characterize such an attempt as a “vanity campaign” just because it’s bound to lose. And the expression sounds unfairly trivializing: lots of people think there are plenty of good reasons to mount a serious and highly-visible campaign for something even if you know you’re not going to win, and find it a little insulting to have it implied that it’s all about “vanity.”
Well, Gore was on Letterman, so Al Gore is still just a celebrity by your definition. He doesn’t have much of a chance of winning either – about a zero percent chance if the election were held today and the polling data is reliable. Gore knows what the polls say! So is Gore just running out of vanity at this point?
No, the American party (a/k/a “Know-Nothings”) never won an election. Their candidate in 1856, Fillmore, had been President, but he succeeded to the Presidency on Talor’s death, and had been elected as a Whig.
My take on the matter is essentially the same as divemaster’s. I frankly consider that Nader and the Green Party combine the worst features of Huey Long and Mao Tsetung[sup]1[/sup], but I wouldn’t bar him and them from running a Presidential campaign on that basis.
My biggest targets for making cruel fun of are those who think that if Nader prevents either Bush or Gore from getting a majority of the electoral vote, The People™ will rise up and demand that the EC be abolished – and, in 2004, their candidate will be elected dictator with 2% of the vote. Sorry, but it ain’t gonna happen.
Long: “flamboyant and demagogic governor of Louisiana and U.S. senator whose social reforms and radical welfare proposals were ultimately overshadowed by the unprecedented executive dictatorship that he perpetrated to ensure control of his home state.”
Although I don’t particularly care of Nader’s politics I have to admit he’s got principles. Those principles keep him from dropping out of the race and endorsing Al Gore. Nader believes that Al Gore and George Bush are almost identical. I’d be more afraid of Nader in the White House then Bush or Gore.
Nader is still quite famous and would get speaking gigs regardless of running for President.
Oh, man. You do not know how tempting this is for me. I wish I could, in good conscience, make such a swap. I’d love to see Bush take Washington.
Having said that, I just can’t. I’ve been one of those voices that pops up in these threads extolling the virtues of casting a vote for the candidate you believe in, regardless of chance of winning. Let’s just say that I have my own litmus test that Nader fails. On just about every issue important to me, Nader fails. If I were to vote for him, even realizing that my vote would be offset by an arrangement, I would have to use too much rationalization to know that I cast my lot for the “enemy.”
Maybe my approach to voting is naive or idealistic, but it works for me.
The Green party is, and has, posted candidates for many elections, not just the Presidential one. I actually had a class taught by Joel Kovel–the Green Party opponent to Al D’Amato and Schumer (spelling?).
Now, this man is completely insane; he firmly believes the revolution is coming, and whatnot. Yet somehow at this point, I’d trust even him over the current political leadership of this country.
On the other hand, many of the candidates are much more reasonable and are a far cry from the delusional communists that certain individuals seem so desperate to paint them as.
Ralph Nader is refreshingly, almost embarrassingly, honest. And he actually cares. Nitpick all you want, but he tells you what his views are. He tells you what he thinks of the other candidates, and why. And he tells you exactly why he’s running. He’s trying to build the Green Party by raising money and by bringing in younger voters.
And sometimes he’s pretty funny.
We should be so lucky as to have such qualities in a president.
Peace,
mangeorge
As Akatsukami pointed out, the Know-Nothing have never won a Presidential election. The only election in which they received any electoral votes was in '56 (same year the Republicans first ran a national candidate), and they only received Maryland’s electoral votes. Millard Fillmore had been a Whig when he assumed the Presidency after Taylor’s death, and Fillmore did not switch over to the Know-Nothing Party until well after he had left office.
If the Republicans had failed to nominate a candidate and instead said, “Hey, this Perot guy- go support him”, and then never fielded a presidential candidate again, yes, I’d consider the Republicans the third party. The Whig Party did not have a convention or a Presidential candidate in 1856. The only ‘large’ parties running were the Democrats, the Republicans, and the Know-Nothings. Unless you consider the Democrats the major party and both the Republicans and Know-Nothings third-parties (in which case you’re again counting the Democrats as two parties, even though in this case they’re only fielding a single candidate), you have to admit that the Republicans had taken over as the major party from the Whigs.
Ralph was in my fair state yesterday.
He did say something funny: he said he was waiting for someone to ask him if he was worried that Al Gore was taking votes from him!
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