Why No "Smoking Bars?

I am aware that California and NY, and maybe other states, now have stringent “no smoking” laws the even ban smoking in bars.

That sucks…hit the return button too soon.

What I mean, is why are there no “smoking bars” in those states that would allow people who do smoke, and employees who smoke, to do what they want. Give them an extra license. Charge more. Whatever.

Why do ALL bars have to be smoke free?

Because then they would steal all the customers away from the non-smoking bars, thus forcing the competition to become smoking bars too. And then we’re back where we started.

Why can’t the bar owners manage their businesses as they see fit? Oh yeah,it’s all about employee health. Why can’t employees decide where and under what conditions they work. They’re not forced in any other business situation where management changes policy to remain.

The General Answer to your question is, "because that’s the law in New York City and the State of California.

If you were looking for some other kind of answer, hie thee to Great Debates.

Tobacco companies take out center full page ads in local weekly papers directing smokers to private clubs where they can smoke all they want with like-minded people.

I’m confused by this whole issue. Toronto instituted a smoking ban in restaurants a couple of years back, and I was under the impression that a ‘restaurant’ was any food preparation establishment.

Yet many places that have full-service restaurant kitchens but also call themselves ‘bars’ or ‘clubs’ seem to be able to get away with not displaying the no-smoking signs, and allowing people to smoke in the buildings.

I wonder if that’s actually accounted for in the law, or if they’re just sneaking around it? One pub on my campus seems to waffle back and forth between enforcing and not enforcing the smoking rule, as if they’re trying to get away with it and then being afraid they’ll be caught.

In most cases, the relevant laws/regulations are probably worded so as to prohibit what you suggest. Boston has a ban on smoking in the workplace. It used to exclude bars and restaurants, but that exclusion was recently rescinded. (I’m sure Bricker will be along, any minute now, to slam me for misusing terms that have specific legal definitions.) I guess, if I could find enough volunteers (hence, not employees) to staff the place, I might be allowed to open a “smoking club”, but I’m pretty sure the liquor board would balk at issuing me a license.

What it actually has done in CA is made all bars that have any space for it build outside patio areas, which patrons can smoke in. It was probably a secret conspiracy by the sellers of patio tables with umbrellas and heating lamps. The owner of a hole in the wall dive with no space for an outside area has a problem, of course, though they still seem to get business - people usually figure out a way to congregate outside and smoke, if only hanging around in the alley by the back door.

I wonder how cold it has to get and how much snow a place has to have before hanging around outside isn’t a viable solution.

Actually, the law was on the books for a year before they started enforcing it.

Indefatigable, here’s how it works in Toronto:

A public establishment, regardless of food preparation, must declare itself to the city as one of two things: a bar or a restaurant.

If it declares itself as a restaurant, then the following apply to it:

– Smoking is forbidden.
– Children are allowed.

If it declares itself to be a bar, then the following apply to it:

– Smoking is only allowed in 25% of the public floor space.
– Warning signs must be posted (“This area contains tobacco smoke, which causes cancer, lung disease, harms babies” etc.)
– Children and teenagers (anybody under 19) are not allowed.

Of course, this all becomes null and void as of June 1, 2004, when all establishments must become 100% smoke-free, unless they have built some kind of enclosure, I believe. Again, the enclosure must measure a certain percentage of floor area, but I’m unsure how much.

Spoons: Thanks!

Of course, 25% of the floor space means nothing when the ventilation is poor… might as well not be smoke-free at all. That’s the situation on campus, I think. The pubs are so small that 25% of the floor space means two tables.

My favourite pub in Toronto (Pauper’s, on Bloor near Bathurst) actually does a pretty good job of ventilation… smoking is allowed at the bar near the front door, but nowhere else as far as I know… you don’t smell it at all while you’re in there. (You go home and realise your clothes stink, but being in the pub is not unpleasant.)

June 2004 won’t do me any good, as I will have just graduated, and trying not to let the door hit me in the bum on the way out of Toronto. But it’s good to know all the same. :slight_smile:

“I wonder how cold it has to get and how much snow a place has to have before hanging around outside isn’t a viable solution.”

Well, one local place put in a huge firepit to keep you warm.

The law in this state was on the books a year before it got enforced because the law itself said it wouldn’t be enforced until a certain date.

There’s a smoking nightclub in Rhode Island, too.

Oh, like you didn’t think the same thing too…

jr8, you’ve provided a new definition for the word tasteless.

Addressing the OP, in Boston, a soon to be no-smoking town, there are exemptions for “smoking clubs.” To earn this designation, something like 75%* of revenue must be generated by tobacco sales. As a result you can still smoke in the cigar shops cum bars, but not your average pub.

I forget the actual proportion, but it’s pretty damn high.

I work for the biggest Pub Company in the UK. At our pubs we have certain rules.

There’s no smoking at the bar, which I agree with. I smoke. But when we’re really busy I’m running up and down the bar and the last thing I need is smoke in my face.

We have a designated no smoking area that is generally considdered the dining area and where we allow children up until certain times, though this requires a licence. Though you can eat anywhere in pub.

Being a smoker I’d hate for all the pubs to be no smoking.
I can’t see the UK banning smoking in pubs they go hand in hand together. Being a smoker I’d hate it to happen.