It’s amazing because this has been common knowledge for over 20 years, it’s been the frequent subject of debate in the media, and resulted in an enormous and higly visible change in waste management in this country.
I take no position on your second question at this time.
Moderator’s Warning: Deanc2000, personal insults are not allowed in Great Debates. Please calm down, or else open a Pit thread.
And yeah, we’re almost all-paper now, and we’re surviving just fine.
FWIW, the canvas shopping bags are great. They’re cheap and can hold a lot of crap. There’s a Trader Joe’s a block from work and I bought a few of them a year or two ago. The only problem is just remembering to bring them to the store in the first place.
I think Walgreens is still using plastic bags, and Smart & Final is trying to skirt the law by using slightly tougher bags and charging ten cents a pop (jackasses).
This story surprised me. Link
So I kind of agree with the OP. Why no uproar over plastic bags in the USA?
And what about BPA in heavier plastics? What does the FDA have to say about it these days?
I think the real issue with plastic is not landfills but the oceans. Lots and lots of garbage makes it way to oceans. And it’s not just people intentionally chucking trash into water. It’s cargo falling off ships, trash blown off dump trucks, wind, etc.
Plastic CAN degrade and break up over short times, often back into the tiny pellets that they’re made from. These pellets are often eaten by wildlife which can be extremely dangerous.
Speaking as just one person in the **Green ** movement (I am a board member of a small group and a member of 3 others).
The various environmental groups generally have other primary goals currently. The groups I am involved with are largely concerned with **Clean Water ** and Global Warming. Every group I am part of strongly encourages recycling and the use of Cloth Bags, but it is not a core issue, it is just one of dozens of lesser but important issues.
Jim (sorry about the colors, but I chose to emphasize a few words)
I do not want to make a big deal of this but…If you were sorry about the colours, do not use them.
I still do not think you answered my question
I knew the colors would annoy a few and I chose to use them anyway to make a point. I apologized to those I annoy.
The various green groups have pushed for reusable cloth/canvas bags for decades. This is something I know I have talked about for 18 years and I will continue to talk about it as long as it remains a problem.
If you look at posts on this board, you will find Greens almost always mention using cloth/canvas bags. I probably have dozens of posts mentioning this.
What do you think the Green groups should be doing. Active memberships are down in most groups. Global Warming has become the number 1 priority with the hard halt the US took with the current administration. Should we be out protesting stores that use plastic bags instead of using our limited resources to help educate about Global Warming and protecting the Clean Air & Water acts?
Jim
I do not accept the apology about the colours. I hope you do not use them again.
Anyway, if Australia and China are going to be phasing them out, I am surprised that the USA is nowhere near this stage. It seems strange to me. I do not think this is because ‘Green groups’ have huge memberships or resources in those countries compared to the USA.
You guys are assuming all trash ends up in landfills.
Plastic is now the most abundant substance floating on the surface of the pacific ocean - and not all of it floats.
It’s being consumed by krill, plankton and other filter-feeders and moving up the food chain. If we don’t find a solution we won’t just be living with plastic anymore - we’ll be eating it.
5.5 quadrillion nurdles are manufactured each year and most seem to end up in the ocean.
A study was done on fulmar carcasses found on North Sea coastlines that revealed 95% had plastic in their stomachs - and average of 44 pieces, which would be equivalent to 5lbs in a human body. Another study showed that plastic is eagerly ingested by lugworms, barnacles, and sand fleas, resulting in terminal constipation.
Major health a beauty products including massage creams, body scrubs, hand cleaners, toothpaste, and face washes now list among their ingredients “micro-fine polyethylene granules,” “polyethylene micro-spheres”, “polyethelene beads”, or just polyethelene. All are plastics meant to go down the drain, eventually to the ocean to be consumed and move right back up the food chain.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Cited: Weisman, Alan, The World Without Us 2007
Chapter 9: “Polymers are Forever”
Jim, I also refuse to accept your apology for the colors. I find green, blue and red very offensive. At least you didn’t use yellow - I would never have spoken to you again.
It is priorities. In the US, we have been fighting in the loose haphazard way that 100s of groups that do not have direct ties fight, to keep what progress we have made over the last 40 years. To fight drilling in wild life preserves and to try and as #1 to try and get Global Warming acted upon in the US and globally.
If you think, it is a bigger problem than what I have listed, please look into a group that agrees with you and actively volunteer. No environmental group I have ever seen has ever had enough active volunteers. It is a very important issue; it just does not rise up to the top three issues for the group in which I am active.
The key to this problem is more people becoming active and to switch to reusable bags wherever possible. My wife and I even did the cloth diaper thing for 3 years. This is a bigger commitment than you would believe. 
I am easily whooshed, are you serious or not, I am not sure? If it is that bad, I will stop.
So much for my jokes. Of course not serious. 
No, it is me. It looked like a joke, but sometimes I misread. This is why I lean on the smilies in my joking posts. Of course some users hate them also. ::sigh::
There’s no uproar in Canada either. I think this will happen eventually. Our city council wanted to ban plastic bags but most people, me included, do not think this is the role of government.
The U.S. (and Canada to a lesser degree) traditionally let’s business and markets take care of themselves without imposing unfair bylaws upon them.
Yipes! Remind me to read the ingredients list next time I’m in the soap isle.
JRB
The stores themselves are starting to make the transition, at least in Montreal. Some already charge a nickel per plastic bag, encouraging the consumer to bring his/her own reusables.
There are some very good alternatives to plasticware including corn-based products and palm-based ones (such as here
These are completely biodegradable, AFAIK
panache45, I was also surprised the OP hadn’t heard this before!
Qadgop, well I took it as an insult. And where is your cite that this is a “generally known fact”.
I polled 10 people where I work. These are people from all walks of life, including a receptionist, cleaning lady, 1 Master’s degree holder, 1 Bacholer’s degree holder, 1 Doctorate degree holder and everything in the middle. The question was “How long does plastic take to degrade?”. Most common response was “Oh I dunno, a long time maybe”. Only ONE person said “some plastics can take thousands of years to degrade”.
So, I got 10% yield on something you feel is a generally known fact. Please give me your basis as to why you feel this is a generally known fact.
If you’re wondering why I’m being so persistent about this, YOU would to if someone just questioned your intelligence (based on a “generally known fact” that only 10% of people know).