Why no uproar over plastic?

Great Debates
1

I didn’t know this before, but I just found out that plastic does NOT degrade. I found out via a History channel news article. It stays around for thousands if not millions of years. How can we in good conscience keep using and throwing away the plastic utensils, straws, bags, cups, that we all use on a daily basis? God knows how many TONS of plastic waste we discard EVERYDAY as a race. Just think of all the fast food restaurants out there.

Why aren’t environmentalists concerned about this? Why don’t we just stop making plastic and just use cardboard?
Here is my prediction. If we don’t try to pay attention to this issue, it’ll probably be a major factor for the eventual downfall of the human race, if not the earth.

2

Um, why do you think so much effort has been put into recycling plastics over the last two decades? LOTS of attention has been focused on this very issue.

But plastics are still cheap to make and convenient to use. So they get made and used.

3

So what if it doesn’t degrade? Do you think we’re going to convert the entire biosphere into plastic, or something?

Rocks don’t biodegrade either, there are lots of them around, and they haven’t destroyed us yet.

4

[Quote=deanc2000]
Why aren’t environmentalists concerned about this? Why don’t we just stop making plastic and just use cardboard?
[/Quote]

I presume you mean “for short-term packaging”, as there are many applications for which cardboard simply won’t do very well. I thought environmentalists were concerned about simply discarding large amounts of disposable packaging, whether plastic or not.

Not to trivialize any of this, but my prediction is that in 50-100 million years or so, some successor to man is going to discover extensive buried deposits of hydrocarbons, and wonder how they got there…

5

Lots of communities are making the move away from plastic grocery bags in favor of paper, or better yet bringing your own means of comestible conveyance.

And companies like Amicus Green are doing all sorts of interesting things with recycled plastics.

6

Yeah…I am not sure the lack of biodegrading is much of an issue. As I understand, it, modern landfills are pretty much designed to not have the stuff in them degrade…even if it is biodegradable. I guess plastic litter is more of a nuisance than biodegradable litter. And, it is certainly good to be recycling plastic as much as we can.

But, in the grand scheme of things, I think the reason why this isn’t a top priority for environmentalists is that, frankly, the problems with it pale in comparison to other problems such as global warming, air and water pollution, habitat destruction, and unsustainable use of resources such as overfishing and draining of fresh water acquifers.

And, although this wasn’t mentioned, I’ll pre-emptively state that although plastics are made from petroleum, they represent a pretty tiny percentage of the crude oil we use…so it is not nearly as important to cut down on plastics as it is, for example, to increase the efficiencies of our cars.

7

Also, for most plastics that aren’t HDPE or PETE, recycling requires a lot of energy; unlike with aluminum cans, it takes much less energy to make new plastics.

8

[QUOTE=deanc2000]
I didn’t know this before, but I just found out that plastic does NOT degrade.
[/QUOTE]

I’m just finding it totally amazing that you never knew this before. How old are you and where do you live?

9

[QUOTE=deanc2000]
I didn’t know this before, but I just found out that plastic does NOT degrade. I found out via a History channel news article. It stays around for thousands if not millions of years. How can we in good conscience keep using and throwing away the plastic utensils, straws, bags, cups, that we all use on a daily basis? God knows how many TONS of plastic waste we discard EVERYDAY as a race. Just think of all the fast food restaurants out there.
[/QUOTE]

It’s not so simple as to say that plastic utensils = evil and reusable metal ones = good. Let’s say that your local McDonald’s switches to metal utensils. They would need to collect and wash them between uses. How much water and electricity is involved in that? And what’s the alternative to plastic straws?

And, while you didn’t mention it, but plastics are used extensively in packaging. I’ve got a quart-sized plastic bottle here containing vegetable oil. In an earlier decade, the bottle might have been made of glass, which is heavier, and therefore more expensive to ship. (Also, the plastic bottle is squarish, which allows more bottles to be carried in a given volume.)

And as others have said, very little if anything degrades in a modern landfill.

10

[QUOTE=panache45]
I’m just finding it totally amazing that you never knew this before. How old are you and where do you live?
[/QUOTE]

How is it amazing that I never knew this? Am I now some kind of a retard because I didn’t know this?

I guess I should be ashamed of myself because I didn’t know this beforehand right, Panache45?

For your information, SIR, I have extensive education in a particular field, and I was not aware of this fact about plastic.
I take it you’re a critic right? You like to tear down people because it’s so easy to find fault in someone, but then you yourself don’t have any solutions, or any creativity AT ALL. Tell me, what have you created or what problems have you solved in your “critical” little world of yours?

You look down your nose at people who want to learn about things, you make them feel ashamed at not knowing, and then feel so smug about it. When was the last time you tore someone’s curiousity down?

I find people like you ABHORENT!

And the answer to your questions, 41yo and OKC, OK.

11

[QUOTE=Patty O’Furniture]
Lots of communities are making the move away from plastic grocery bags in favor of paper,
[/QUOTE]

That was a trend, and still is depending on where your are, but the trend has reversed in certain areas. Where landfill space is at a premium it is suggested that plastic is better then paper, as it takes up much less space. Also the shipment and storage of of plastic bags take up much space also for the supermarket.

As for the non-biodegradability, how can a global warming alarmist say a thing against plastic bags? Plastics convert oil into something that won’t release CO2.

12

[QUOTE=deanc2000]
Why aren’t environmentalists concerned about this? Why don’t we just stop making plastic and just use cardboard?
[/QUOTE]

Uh…all the environmentalists I know are intensely concerned about this.

Sailboat

13

[QUOTE=deanc2000]
How is it amazing that I never knew this? Am I now some kind of a retard because I didn’t know this?

I guess I should be ashamed of myself because I didn’t know this beforehand right, Panache45?

For your information, SIR, I have extensive education in a particular field, and I was not aware of this fact about plastic.
I take it you’re a critic right? You like to tear down people because it’s so easy to find fault in someone, but then you yourself don’t have any solutions, or any creativity AT ALL. Tell me, what have you created or what problems have you solved in your “critical” little world of yours?

You look down your nose at people who want to learn about things, you make them feel ashamed at not knowing, and then feel so smug about it. When was the last time you tore someone’s curiousity down?

I find people like you ABHORENT!

And the answer to your questions, 41yo and OKC, OK.
[/QUOTE]

Don’t be too upset, this was a cause de jour in the late 80s and early 90s. The answer is to get more people to use reusable cloth bags, not paper vs. plastic.

As others have mentioned, little degrades in land fills. Plastic and Paper each have drawbacks.

So buy and use cloth bags, recycle your plastic bags you do get at supermarkets. Many now have bins to take them back. In fact, I think this just became mandatory in my state of New Jersey.

Try to minimize your use of plastic ware at home. It is better to wash and reuse actual plates and utensils than to use once and toss. Except for parties, we even reuse plastic forks & spoons. They wash well a few times.

Jim

14

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
So buy and use cloth bags…
[/QUOTE]
But stay away from polyester. :wink:

15

[QUOTE=deanc2000]
Here is my prediction. If we don’t try to pay attention to this issue, it’ll probably be a major factor for the eventual downfall of the human race, if not the earth.
[/QUOTE]

I can’t promise to try. But I’ll try to try.

16

[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
I can’t promise to try. But I’ll try to try.
[/QUOTE]
I’ll try to remember to remind you to try to try if someone will try to remember to remind me to remind you to try to try.

17

[QUOTE=deanc2000]
I find people like you ABHORENT!
[/QUOTE]

My oh my.

Someone expressed mild surprise that you’re unaware of a generally known fact.

I’d say your response was rather disproportionate.

18

[QUOTE=deanc2000]
How is it amazing that I never knew this? Am I now some kind of a retard because I didn’t know this?

I guess I should be ashamed of myself because I didn’t know this beforehand right, Panache45?
[/QUOTE]

Perhaps you should lay off the coffee. The other poster was surprised that you hadn’t heard about this. No judgment was attached, except whatever you chose to read into it.

19

My city, and many more across the country, picks up 1 and 2 plastics for recycling. Grocery bags are 2. All mine were picked up this morning.

It might further jolt you to know that hardly anything degrades in landfills. Very old landfills have been dug up for research, and even newspapers, in readable condition, survived being tightly packed underground for half a century.

20

[QUOTE=deanc2000]
How is it amazing that I never knew this? Am I now some kind of a retard because I didn’t know this?

I guess I should be ashamed of myself because I didn’t know this beforehand right, Panache45?
.
[/QUOTE]

No reason to be ashamed, but I do also find it very suprising that you did not already know this in even the vaguest way – from your post it seems that the fact that plastics do not naturally degrade is a complete and total surprise to you at age 41.

I’m 32 and in my childhood (1980s) recycling in general became a very huge issue. My parents aren’t activists or anything, but I definitely knew about the general idea in childhood. If my 12 year old self would have articulated what she knew about plastic decomposition, it would have been along the lines of:
“natural things rot over time, but plastics just sit there forever unless we do something with them.” I went to neighborhood public schools, so its not the result of special schooling.

In addition, throughout the 90s there were advancements in styrofoam subsitututes (like the packing penuts made out of cornstarch, they just dissolve in water) as well as plastics recycling (a lot of polarfleece fabric is made of recycled soda bottles) which kept the issue in the news quite a bit.

Hey it’s always possible to be out of the loop on some things while totally informed on other issues. Its really no big deal. But its been a pretty significant environmental issue for almost 30 years, and one easily communicated to children, so, yes it is suprising that this is the first you’ve heard.