You know why forums don’t just ban people who aren’t liked or agreed with? Because there is no discussion without discord, there is no debate without the “other” point of view. Sure there are some people who hang out on forums wanting to be liked or agreed with, but on a debate style forum like this one a great many don’t care about those things. A forum is a filter and it can also be a mirror. This one has strict rules so the holes of that filter are very small and you are not making it through the holes right now. The mirror is right here in this thread, you are being given a peek into how others see your posts and how they see your reactions to their posts, that’s valuable glimpse that you won’t get offline and it’s up to you how you use that information.
As far as I can tell someone has to break the rules a lot of times (multiple mod notes and/or PMs, plus multiple warnings) to end up banned if they are in fact supplying contentful posts. So if this isn’t really about you being liked or agreed with, then what is the problem you are having with the rules? This is the place to speak out if you really aren’t understanding how the rules apply to your posts. People in this thread have already given you constructive advice for going forward, if you are interested in modifying your behaviour, what else do you need?
Well, if the things I say are downright ridiculous and/or unfounded, then I think it doesn’t matter if I say them kindly or not, no?
I really will try to watch how I phrase things. I’m totally open to that. I don’t usually put qualifiers on my statements, like “I don’t want to be rude” or “While I think that x” or whatever. I usually just mean what I’m saying, but I should probably be a little less…sterile…at times.
I also find it odd that I’m confused as being male most of the time. I’m female. 100 per cent girl here: sewing, baking, an affection for pink. I’m also very liberal, but am mistaken for Republican quite a lot. So, definitely need to re-think my phrasing.
I think it does. If you say them in a non caustic manner then others are more receptive to addressing those points without vitriol and you can correct the ridiculous and/or unfounded elements of your argument. Isn’t that the point of debate? It’s not about winning it’s about getting to the truth and gaining a deeper understanding of your position. Well, until it gets personal. Don’t let it go there.
I’m not sure that sterile is what people are on about. I think a good idea is to not fall into the trap of thinking that your idea = you when you’re in the trenches. To some extent it’s hard to do since you’re birthing your ideas so to speak but really, no one has unique ideas so you’re more a steward of the idea than it’s creator. Defend your charge, not yourself. Be protective, not defensive and yeah, watch your phrasing and if you think someone is hitting below the belt, don’t go there. You can’t control them but you absolutely can control yourself and if you take the high road, worry not, people will see that and know. Drop down into the mud and everyone just gets dirty. Especially good advice if you happen to be a bit more sensitive than those you’re debating.
Also, and I bring this up because I know it’s something I have to watch myself is if you’re going to respond to something and it’s given you a rise, reread what you’re about to respond to. Then reread it again. Keep doing this until you’re positive that you understand what you’ve read because you are reading through a filter of emotion at that point and you’re interpreting through that same filter. More often than not, what you thought you read isn’t what was said and if it was, it’s usually not what was meant but was poorly phrased.
CitizenPained, I have a suggestion: Post less often. You’re averaging over 31 posts a day. This practice alone will tend to annoy people. Yes, there are other posters who post a lot. Some of us find them annoying too.
Reduce the number of times per day you read and post to the SDMB. Each time you post to a given thread, go back and read all the relevant posts carefully. Perhaps reread the entire thread carefully each time you post. Take the most charitable interpretation of each post you reply to. If you are convinced that someone else is violating the board rules, report them. Do not immediately post to that thread when you think someone else has violated the rules. Take a day or so to think about what they have said. Carefully formulate a calm post if you really feel the need to reply to what they have said. If you find it impossible to post a reply that doesn’t sound angry, just drop out of the thread. As we all have to eventually discover, the Internet is full of people spouting nonsense. We can’t spend all our time trying to fix every error we come across.
Yes, I know this will be hard. As much as you would like to correct every error of every other poster, this is impossible. Pick your battles carefully. The SDMB is not the be-all and end-all of life. If you find yourself spending too much time on it, maybe that just shows that there are more important ways for you to use your valuable time. I don’t mean that sarcastically at all. You are an intelligent person. It would be best to spend your resources on important things. Perhaps getting into arguments where people don’t seem to be listening to you isn’t a good use of your resources.
This is one of the weirder crucifixions I’ve attended. The spectators are all standing around offering advice, and the condemned keeps offering to help drive the nails.
Citizen, my friend, climb down from that cross, you’re not being persecuted or treated in any way that others aren’t.
The moderation of this group is never easy, nor is it an exact science. There are always many ways to interpret things.
A lot of people have given you great advice here, which you seem deaf to. People with no dog in this fight, non moderator fellow posters.
You seem intelligent enough to get what’s being said and yet you’re not. You certainly seem intelligent enough to understand the nuances being laid out for you. You also seem intelligent enough to be able to rephrase what you’re wanting to say, so it falls within the guidelines, yet adamantly refuse to. And that’s a shame.
Your, ‘just ban me then’, song makes you sound like a child, and your, ‘I didn’t call anyone stupid’, in the face of the evidence you did, makes people care very little if you stay or go.
A hard headed stubbornness, and a thin skin, don’t go well together, add a martyr complex and you come off less than well through all this.
Take a step back, stop being so invested in being right. Instead try being open to what people are trying to tell you.
Whether or not the mods should ban people they don’t like or agree with is beyond my sphere of giving a shit. What I don’t understand is why people who clearly don’t enjoy posting here don’t just shut up and stop posting here. Either that or at least flame out in an entertaining fashion. Or are we in the middle of that now … I lose track sometimes?
[QUOTE=Munch]
There is a difference between these statements: “You’re a liar”, “you’re lying”, “your statement is a lie” and “you’re backpedaling”. One is an insult, one is in a grey area, and two are not insults at all. (“You’re lying” has been on both sides of the fence on this board - I suggest you avoid it.)
[/QUOTE]
Wait… what?
“your statement is a lie” is not calling a poster a liar [as in knowingly stating a falsehood]?
Agreed. If you think someone is stupid, don’t say it outright like that. Instead, post proof and facts that shine a spotlight on their stupidity. It’s far more effective.
Well, I think it’s more appropriate to say “that isn’t true,” which is similar to saying saying that something is a lie, but slightly different in the same way that saying something is a lie is slightly different than calling someone a liar. A person who is a liar is being defined by that characteristic and the phrase carries strong connotations about manipulating the truth to achieve an end. Stating a lie could be simply repeating something that isn’t true, or could be an action that’s out of character for the person, or could simply be someone making a statement that they believe is true but is made a lie by objective truth. Either way, I think it’s better to simply say that something isn’t true - because using the phrase “a lie” implies an intent to mislead, when the person may simply be wrong. The only exception I would make is when a poster is repeating a public or common assertion that has been proven to be a lie.
Any indication that one’s opponent has deliberately posted false information in the context of a debate suggests that they canot be trusted to not post other false information. It is a very incendiary comment, even if one finds language that does not directly meet the normal standards of a direct, personal insult.
In that context, the Teeming Millions argued it out and a general consensus was reached to prohibit any such constructions in Great Debates.
The point was to avoid inflammatory attacks beyond simply addressing “personal insults.”
This is one rule that was suggested by, argued by, and agreed upon by the TM, not the staff. It only applies to Great Debates, where accusations of lying are more numerous and more hostile.
“You’re lying” is definitely a grey area, and I’d guess a mod to at least comment on it. I doubt they would with “your statement is a lie”, because it’s arguing the post, not the poster.
