Why not just let the Iraqi Governing Council decide what to do with Saddam's corpse?

Looks like the noose is tightening around Saddam - seems like a matter of time before he goes down like his shitbag sons.

Assuming this does happen, can anyone tell me the harm of giving custody of the corpse to the newly-formed Iraqi Governing Council?

The decision to parade his body a la Mussolini, or show a video of the corpse a la Ceaucescu/Uday and Qusay would be an Iraqi decision. It also seems like a way to give the council some much-needed legitimacy among the Iraqi people, and may serve to somwhat mute the suspicion and weird conspiracy theories among Iraqis and Arabs who don’t trust the U.S. It also gives the council some serious authority and a chance to assert itself as having some real authority.

Not to mention the added benefit that if, say, the council decided to hang his body from those big swords over that highway in Baghdad, and the inevitable backlash from Europe comes around to the U.S., the administration can just say that it’s giving control back to the Iraqis, and it was THEIR decision.

I can’t think of any drawbacks. Why not do this?

As long as he gets what he deserves.

If the Iraqis get him themselves just like Mussolini or Ceausecu, let them do what they will. If the US hands the body over to be paraded down the street, well, just don’t be so outraged the next time the body of a dead American is paraded down a city street.

**If for no other reason than the realpolitik of the fact that it will be viewed by the rest of the world as barbaric?

Oh, it’d just do WONDERS for public opinion of the US. In the Arab world especially. And yes, I know we talk a lot about how low that it, but I bet public parades of corpses would lower it by a few notches.

A public parade of the corpse is not an inevitability with this scenario.

What benefit do you see in this proposal, GoHeels?

I think it’s bad enough that some people are calling for a foreign policy based on liberationist “altruism” (haha), but are we now also surrendering rationalism to overemotional demands for vengeance? Blech. Give me cynical, hard-nosed pragmatism any day. What’s in it for us?

Just because they’re European doesn’t mean they’re stupid.

SSSSHHHH! Ixnay on the urope-Eay! :stuck_out_tongue:

Seriously, I agree. If something like that happened, I can’t imagine anybody would believe the US wasn’t responsible. And the Iraqi Government as it is was entirely set up by the US and Britain, so it’d come back to them by proxy anyway.

Publius:

The benefits I see are:

  • A chance to give the Iraqi Governing Council authority on a rather important matter. Considering that the first act of the council was to make April 9 a holiday (the day Baghdad fell and the Saddam statues came tumbling down), something tells me the council’s decision on what to do with Saddam’s body will not meet with U.S. objection.

I think the 25-member council (despite being made up of a majority of Shi’ites, some of whom might object to the anything other than immediate burial on religious grounds) nevertheless also has an interest in proving Saddam is dead in order to reduce the fear to cooperate on the part of the Iraqi people.

  • A chance for the Iraqi Governing Council to gain legitimacy with the Iraqi people (granted, many folks will continue to be suspicious of the council’s decision on what to do with the body).

I don’t deny what Marley23 said is true in that some will view the council’s decision as a U.S. decision by proxy. But that’s unavoidable anyway, and if the U.S. loudly retorts that it’s trying to give decision-making ability to the council, it helps to mute that criticism.

  • A chance for the U.S. to prove that it is transferring authority to the council on an issue in which it’s unlikely that the council and the U.S. would disagree.

The U.S. can always weigh in that it prefers the body is not paraded around the streets, but that it will respect the decision of the council.

Where did I ever say that? :confused:

From what I can tell, the European press seems to be objecting to the U.S. display of the Uday/Qusay bodies on the grounds that it’s ghoulish. On the whole, that’s a fair complaint (although I suspect it’s mostly politically driven, since I don’t remember too much bitching when the Romanians killed Ceaucescu and showed it on TV).

But again, if the U.S. responds that it’s trying to give some real decision-making ability to the Iraqis as well as dispelling fear among the Iraqi people, then it helps in defusing the inevitable criticism, and it’s decent PR for the U.S. (goodness knows we need some).

Whether the council decides to bury him according to Muslim ritual, hang him from a lamppost, or just show video of the body, the decision becomes an Iraqi one. If the European or Arab press wants to bitch, the U.S. can proclaim that it’s an IRAQI DECISION.

The U.S. is the only entity in the world that can make the odious Uday and Qusay into somewhat sympathetic figures. The benefits of disowning the decision on what to do with Saddam’s body and transferring the decision to the Iraqi council seem readily apparent.

censored:

I agree. As I said before, since the council has significant religious influence, the decision could be made to simply bury the body according to Muslim burial rites. Or, to display the body on video (which I suspect would be most likely). Or, hang it from the swords over the highway.

No matter the council’s decision, the U.S. can just say that it’s attempting to give the council real authority.

Dissonance

Then the world can be outraged at the Iraqi council (and, as censored and I both said, it’s far from inevitable that the council would barbarically parade Saddam’s body down the street). And, as I said, the U.S. can weigh in with its preferences but say that it will respect the Iraqi decision.

And from a U.S. perspective, I suspect the U.S. is much less concerned what the world thinks than what the Iraqi people (and by extension, the Arabs) themselves think.

Marley23 :

OK, then how about the council having a debate and a vote (both of which open to public scrutiny) on the matter? Besides transparency and the public display of the workings of some small level of democracy, it might go a long way toward muting the criticism that the U.S. is pulling the strings (although I do grant that many in the Arab world will continue to believe that).

Marley23

I think you may have misunderstood the point of my OP.

The point of the OP was to give the Iraqi council the authority to make the decision of what to do with Saddam’s body. Whether or not the Iraqis decide to parade the corpse or show it on video or bury it according to Muslim burial rites, the decision is an Iraqi one.

The U.S. could express its preferences (or better yet, keep its mouth shut), but say that it will respect the decision of the council, no matter what.

In fact, I imagine the Bush administration might secretly welcome a mild public disagreement between itself and the council on the matter (with the council’s decision on what to do with the body being final) since that might boost the council’s legitimacy among the Iraqi people and the larger Arab world.

Regardless, the point of the OP was that since Saddam brutalized the Iraqi people, it should be an Iraqi decision on how to best “achieve closure.”

The benefit to the U.S. is that no matter what the decision of the council turns out to be, the U.S. somewhat distances itself from whatever worldwide criticism occurs (which, no matter what the decision is, is inevitable) and shows that it is giving power back to Iraqis.

Regarding this and the post after, GoHeels: the problem to me is that the council was assembled entirely by the US, not voted in by the Iraqi people. As such, it’s going to be seen by many as a puppet body, especially when it does something in accordance with American wishes. So allowing this council to act might do a little to mute that criticism, but ultimately I don’t think it will do much. Independent Iraqi elections will do way more to demonstrate that the US is backing out and giving power to the people there.

Marley23:

Agree with you about the elections being the ultimate way to demonstrate this. I think you’re probably right that the council is viewed by many Iraqis as a puppet right now. Unfortunately, we’re not living in a perfect world and hardly any reasonable person thinks elections at this point are remotely workable (especially since Iraq is eight months away from having a constitution).

Therefore, let’s say hypothetically that the U.S. kills Saddam sometime in the next two weeks. All I’m saying is to give the decision on the handling of Saddam’s corpse to the council, which is a means of the U.S. BEGINNING THE PROCESS of handing over decision-making authority to the Iraqis.

The council needs to gain legitimacy among the Iraqi people - this might be a good way for the Americans to imbue the council with the authority to gain some legitimacy.

And, if the debate about what to do with the body is open and includes testimony from Iraqis (some of whom wish to hang the body from a lamppost, some of whom want it shown on TV, some of whom who want it to be buried according to Muslim rituals), this might help the council gain some treasured legitimacy.

I still don’t see any drawbacks. Seems like good PR for both the CPA and the council.

I agree GoHeels, the legitimate rights of the people who suffered under the atrocities of Saddam’s regime of terror must have (as we say in the prissy prissy west) “closure”. “Closure” is a pretty benign term to represent the end of the unthinkable grief brought about by a murdering despot named Saddam Hussein.

To hell with those who whine about what terrible things they might do with his corpse. They were not there when he tortured and gassed and buried alive their sons and daughters and wives and husbands and mothers and fathers and cousins and friends.

May God have mercy on his dark dark soul.

Milum:

I agree with this sentiment. If the Iraqi people themselves overwhelmingly object to the handling of Saddam’s corpse, that’s one thing, and the Americans would we well served to pay attention.

Not to say I don’t care about what the European press or Western European people think about the handling of the corpse. But if it comes down to a decision between appeasing the desires of the Iraqi people or appeasing the sensitivities of the Europeans, I’ll choose the former.

Nevertheless, I still think this would be a good opportunity to give the final decision to the council as a way for it to curry favor and gain a small measure of legitimacy among the Iraqi people.

My problem with this is that Ceaucescu, Mussolini, and his mistress were summarily executed by partisans who had captured them. The execution and subsequent treatment of their bodies was a consequence of the crowds venting years of outrage against atrocities they had committed. As such, I see nothing inherently barbaric about it. While handing the corpse of Saddam over to the Iraqi Council might not result in his head on a pike being paraded through downtown Baghdad, should that in fact ensue, the damage to US credibility will be a nightmare. The conclusion that it was at least desired by the US will be impossible to avoid and will not help international effort at Iraqi reconstruction. Should a group of Iraqis capture Saddam, execute him and drag his carcass through the streets, more power to them. If on the other hand the US hands his remains over to the Iraqi Council, winks slightly and watches as the carnage ensues, the damage will not be worth any gain.

I’m afraid I don’t have time for much of a post, as I’m afraid I’m about to run to the airport and will probably be out of touch for a week. I did, however, want to apologize to GoHeels for being snarky last night. Sorry.

As far as what I meant by my comment, Marley23 said it: to Europeans, and any other observers, the distinction between an Iraqi government and the CPA-I in such a case would be meaningless. Rather than make the Iraqi advisory council appear more independent, it would merely reinforce its image as a puppet of the United States.

I apologize also for making a point with so little support behind it, but I’ve got to run. See y’all in a week.

I’m not worried about Western Europe so much. I’m worried about the Arab - or North Korean - despots who might take a US-approved council stringing up Saddam’s corpse as a VERY direct threat.

Posturing.

Wonderful, yet neither were either of you there, so shall you both spare us posturing on behalf of the Iraqis.

In general, treatment of the corpse should be reasonable as a matter of policy. A state should not be seen as deliberately playing to the mob if it wishes to be worthy of respect.

It’s all very well and nice for nice, poorly informed moral posturing to speak to Sadaam’s crimes - they are legion even if the gassing bit does not hold up to close scrutiny - however the reality is also of major support in certain areas and blood ties. In short, volatile and uncertain situation.

The council, made up of exiles in the vast majority, is not a body well-endowed to handle this.

Collounsbury:

Is this a reference to the comments I’ve seen from some military vets that Iran was responsible for this - or that it was a crossfire situation - after all? Apologies for the hijack, but I’d appreciate your expertise here.

I have no expertise in military affaires, I only am led to understand by what I have read that the main gassing incidents of the Kurds to frequently cited to in fact may have been Iranian military in origin. Collateral damage.

Sadaam, however, has plenty of other sins.

No question. Just curious about that one point.