Why should I care about gay marriage?

[Marley23]

@Marley23

Or do you mean the 12 states where marriage equality was achieved by legislative action or by voter referendum? I count 6 states where this has happened through the judiciary (and three more where rulings are being appealed).

Oops, another update! A judge in Texas just found that state’s gay marriage ban violates the Constitution. That ruling is being stayed pending an appeal.

[Melchior]

@iiandyiiii

Public opinion has changed enormously on this tradition. A majority of the people believe the tradition has changed.

LOL

[iiandyiiii]

@Melchior

LOL

The truth can be funny sometimes!

[Marley23]

@Melchior

LOL

He’s right. This is what happens when you’re in a partisan echo chamber … echo chamber … echo chamber … echo chamber …

[Melchior]

@Antinor01

Nice try. This clearly says that you don’t understand the issue at all. You keep saying what you think the issue is not and have shown zero understanding of what the issue is, or even might be.

For the benefit of anyone else that may actually be interested in reality, there are many legal rights and privileges that I want to be able to access. I want to be certain that if something happens to me, my fiance (soon to be spouse) will have the inarguable right to inherit my property or I his if something should happen to one of us, I want the government, at every level, to treat us the same as they treat my brother and his wife.

Even small things like filling out one customs form when we come home from international travel rather than being treated as complete strangers by Homeland Security like we have been many times. It really sickened me to be treated very rudely by an official of the federal government and being told exactly that when coming into LAX from a trip to Mexico.

You can’t always have what you want in life. Married people have certain privileges (maybe they shouldn’t!), but marriage is between people of opposite sexes. That’s what it is. I don’t have 10 million dollars. Why can’t I sue Bill Gates and demand that he give me 10 million dollars under the Equal Protection Clause?

[iiandyiiii]

@Melchior

You can’t always have what you want in life. Married people have certain privileges (maybe they shouldn’t!), but marriage is between people of opposite sexes. That’s what it is. I don’t have 10 million dollars. Why can’t I sue Bill Gates and demand that he give me 10 million dollars under the Equal Protection Clause?

Traditions change. The definitions of words change. You are witnessing both changes in action.

[deryk]

@Melchior

You can’t always have what you want in life. Married people have certain privileges (maybe they shouldn’t!), but marriage is between people of opposite sexes. That’s what it is. I don’t have 10 million dollars. Why can’t I sue Bill Gates and demand that he give me 10 million dollars under the Equal Protection Clause?

If a law existed that states, “Anyone named Bill Gates gets 10 million dollars” then you could. Or rather you could sue the state.

[Marley23]

@Melchior

Married people have certain privileges (maybe they shouldn’t!), but marriage is between people of opposite sexes. That’s what it is.

If we say it’s something different, it’s something different. That’s how words and the law work: they change sometimes.

I don’t have 10 million dollars. Why can’t I sue Bill Gates and demand that he give me 10 million dollars under the Equal Protection Clause?

You can. You’ll just lose because your rights aren’t being violated. The Equal Protection Clause says people must be treated equally under the law, but nobody has ever interpreted that to mean you personally deserve $10 million.

[Antinor01]

@Melchior

You can’t always have what you want in life. Married people have certain privileges (maybe they shouldn’t!), but marriage is between people of opposite sexes. That’s what it is. I don’t have 10 million dollars. Why can’t I sue Bill Gates and demand that he give me 10 million dollars under the Equal Protection Clause?

So the question is back to you, why do you think gay couples are seeking the right to legal marriage? Do you have an answer or are you just going to continue to deflect?

[Melchior]

@YogSosoth

LOL! No, sorry, you won’t be able to dodge it that easily

Whether you think there’s a LEGITIMATE issue is besides the point. There IS an issue because we’re all talking about it. If we were talking about nothing, then the issue would be nothing. Since we’re talking about gay marriage, then that’s the issue. Pretending that it doesn’t exist is meaningless. There are actual gay people being married right now, actual gay couples fucking and stealing mojos away from straight couples (or some shit), and actual gay couples being denied benefits RIGHT NOW. That’s the issue.

Now if you are too cowardly to say what your objection to it is, then sure, mum’s the word, you can’t think up a good reason to argue your way out of a wet paper bag, that’s fine and dandy. But you’re not going to get away with saying there’s no issue. There is one. The issue is gay marriage. So why do you object to it? What is your reasoning? Or just admit you don’t have one and slink away

There is no issue. It’s not marriage. It’s not ‘unfair discrimination’ to say so and to reject applications for marriage licenses for this.

[Melchior]

@Antinor01

So the question is back to you, why do you think gay couples are seeking the right to legal marriage? Do you have an answer or are you just going to continue to deflect?

It doesn’t matter what they think. I don’t care why. There is no good argument on their side. Just being unhappy or frustrated is not a justifiable reason for this enormous legal effort. I am unhappy about lots of things, but that does not justify my asking a judge to change them.

[Marley23]

@Melchior

There is no issue. It’s not marriage.

Once again: that’s an appeal to tradition, not an argument that will work in a court of law.

[ElvisL1ves]

@Melchior

This has nothing to do with the ‘Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment’ and that’s my point.

Does too.

Your turn.

[Antinor01]

@Melchior

It doesn’t matter what they think. There is no good argument on their side. Just being unhappy or frustrated is not a justifiable reason for this enormous legal effort. I am unhappy about lots of things, but that does not justify asking a judge to change them.

That’s almost exactly what I thought you’d say. You’re clearly not interested in debate or to actually discuss the topic.

[deryk]

@Melchior

There is no good argument on their side.

False dilemma

[Melchior]

@Marley23

Once again: that’s an appeal to tradition, not an argument that will work in a court of law.

Of course it does. A great many laws regarding sexual activity, nudity, etc., and (many other things) rest on nothing but tradition (or ‘custom’ if you prefer).

[Marley23]

I counted 12 states that have approved the recognition of same-sex marriage through either referendums or by changing the law. What do you think doing it that way, Melchior?

@Melchior

Of course it does. A great many laws regarding sexual activity, nudity, etc., and (many other things) rest on nothing but tradition (or ‘custom’ if you prefer).

Hmm, you seem to have downgraded your claim a lot! On page three you said most laws were based on custom and nothing else; now you’re only saying that many laws related to sexual activity rest on custom. It’s irrelevant: if a law is found to violate the Constitution, the fact that it’s traditional does not save it. See Lawrence v. Texas, where the Supreme Court threw out anti-sodomy laws. I explained this to you on page three but I guess you forgot about it.

[Melchior]

@Antinor01

That’s almost exactly what I thought you’d say. You’re clearly not interested in debate or to actually discuss the topic.

I don’t buy your argument is what I am saying, and nothing you or anyone else has said here is remotely persuasive.

[Antinor01]

@Melchior

I don’t buy your argument is what I am saying, and nothing you or anyone else has said here is remotely persuasive.

Neither is yours, as evidenced by repeated national polls showing that you are in the minority.

[Melchior]

@Marley23

I counted 12 states that have approved the recognition of same-sex marriage through either referendums or by changing the law. What do you think doing it that way, Melchior?

Not an argument. If you are asking a mass-psychological question, ask someone else.