Why "Sí, se puede" rather than "Sí, podemos"?

One thing I learned about in Spanish that doesn’t quite seem to be mentioned here is the use of se constructions when people aren’t discussing responsibility, like falling down, or things breaking, etc. People aren’t intentionally falling down or breaking things. In English we just say “you broke it” but I was taught that one should use a se form to avoid an accusatory tone. Basically, in colloquial English, “It went and broke on you.” Or “I fell [down]” would be “me caí”. Is the same thing happening here with morir?

Yes, they’re called reflexive forms. Se murió, se cayó. Not “se habla” which is an impersonal (somebody says), but something like die or fall down which you “do to yourself.”

Can somebody remind me what reflexive means?

It also chants like shite, too, especially for a group of people that is comprised of only 50% Spanish speakers. It’s also (a bit) harder to put on a bumper sticker.

Referring or happening to oneself. When the subject and object are the same individual or thing, this is reflexive. “I see myself.” ‘Myself’ is a reflexive pronoun.

That’s interesting because I remember reading long ago about an African language that had no reflexive pronouns. And so, it was impossible to say something like, “I cut myself”. Instead, the speaker would say, “the knife cut me”.

I’d just like to remind folks that Obama didn’t use that slogan arbitrarily. Cesar Chavez had the United Farm Workers adopt the slogan during Chavez’s 1972 25-day fast. Obama chose the phrase from that source.

And your source for that is?

For all I know, Obama’s source could have been the lyrics to Diego Torres’ “Color Esperanza”. “Se puede” isn’t an expresion Chávez copyrighted…

“Saber que se puede,
querer que se pueda,
quitarse los miedos,
tirarlos afuera…”

To know that we can,
to want to be able
to get rid of the fears,
to throw them out…

The ‘Sí podemos’ phrase was already taken - by the Spanish version of Bob the Builder (Yes We Can).

En serio.

Wasnt Bob el Constructor’s slogan “Podemos Hacerlo”?

Maybe Bob translations varied across the Spanish-speaking world, but here is the version I am familiar with:

On edit - you’re right too, Frodo- they say both

¿Podemos hacerlo? is the question;
Sí podemos is the reply - ‘yes we can’.

Where did you learn your manners, sailor? It’s a wonder we attempt to learn a second language at all with such rude and pointless criticism to combat.

Nava I think ** jayjay’s** point is that ‘‘Si se puede,’’ wherever Obama co-opted it from, had more narrative weight than if he had used something else, because of its association with Latin American/Latino political movements in general. I think of ‘‘si se puede’’ on the same level as ''el pueblo unido jamás será vencido’’ (The people, united, will never be defeated.) Both have to do with an attempt to achieve a political goal through the power of the people. Obama was taking something familiar with deep roots when he used that slogan–it was no accident.

When Obama started using ‘‘si se puede’’ there were many Latino critics who felt it wasn’t fair to co-opt the slogan, that it belonged to Chavez and the United Farm Workers. I don’t remember how one voter put it, but something like, ‘‘You don’t go out and say something like ‘‘si se puede’’ unless you were part of Chavez’ movement and you fought that fight and you know what you’re talking about.’’ Of course when the UFWU came out in support of Obama, that smoothed things over a bit.

Would it be correct to think about the impersonal *se as equivalent of the impersonal one, in English, i.e. se peude= one can?

*although not as it’s being used in the slogan mentioned in the OP, of course.

And mine is that Chávez isn’t Obama’s only possible source of inspiration, or one that seems particularly sane. The song I quoted is a pretty recent Latino-wide hit. “Sí, se puede” was… not so much a slogan as a “frozen phrase” way before Chávez made it his. Claiming ownership on that line is like trying to copyright “Vale.”
Yes, Charlie Tan.

Huh? There are all sorts of these. I’m guessing that if you read further down, you’ll see that my Spanish and grammar are corroborated by native speakers.

I don’t disagree. I’m sorry about the confusion, but I wasn’t insisting Obama got it from Chavez so much as trying to explain why Obama chose ‘‘si se puede’’ as opposed to, say, ‘‘si podemos’’ per Frodo’s suggestion. I suggest that Obama chose ‘‘si se puede’’ specifically because it has recognizable narrative weight – whether it comes from Chavez o Color Esperanza or any other source, si se puede carries the specific cultural connotation of overcoming hardship through the power of the people.

Of course, that’s assuming ‘‘si podemos’’ doesn’t have equal weight or historic precedent–for all I know it does. I was just offering an explanation of why* si se puede* vs. anything else.

Wow, this thread went quick. I am too late to be of use, so I will just vote for post #6 as an answer to the OP.

And I would say no to Charlie Tan in #32. “Se puede” means that it can be done, not necessarily that one can.

Nope. There is no verb “morirse”. There is only the verb “morir”. How da hell would you conjugate “morirse”? The verb is morir.

Maybe I can do a slight hijack here. Similarly to the OP, why is the men’s department in stores (Target, Walmart and others) labeled caballeros rather than hombres?

Bob

It took me fifteen seconds to go to the Real Academia Española website and look up the verb “morir” and find the notation “usado también como pronominal,” in other words, also used as a reflexive verb - morirse. Google returns 987,000 hits for “morirse.”

As to how to conjugate it, the answer is like any other reflexive verb: me muero, te mueres, se muere, nos morimos, os morís, se mueren; me moriré, te morirás, and so forth.

urban1z, “caballeros” means “gentlemen” and is often used in such contexts (similarly with bathroom doors and so forth, and in the phrase “caballeros y señoras,” “ladies and gentlemen”).

Nope, As the Real Academia says, the werb is “morir”. There is no verb “Morirse”, just like there is no verb peinarse, bajarse, dejarlo, subirse, subirlo, subirla, etc. The verb is subir and the particles are added to the verb. That the word is found in Google is irrelevant. The word is valid but it is a compound word formed by the verb and the particle.

The RAE confirms what I said. There is no such verb as “morirse”. The verb is Morir.