Why so many Orthodox Jurisdictions in USA

Since Polycarp asked in another thread, I’ll take a stab at the question. First, I am going to restrict my answer to Canonical Eastern Orthodoxy. The Oriental Orthodox (non-Chalcedonian) are better equipped to answer this question for themselves–I haven’t a clue given their organization over here.

So, the following list is a (probably incomplete) list of Canonical Orthodox Christian jurisdictions and their Primates that can be found in the USA. All of them are in communion with all of the others:

Greek Orthodox Archdiocese (an Archbishop under the Patriarch of Constantinople in Istanbul, Turkey).

Serbian Orthodox (a Metropolitan under the Patriarch of Serbia)

Antiochian Orthodox (Patriarch of Antioch)

Romanian Orthodox (a Bishop–I think–under the Patriarch of Romania)

Patriarchate of Jerusalem (Patriarch of Jerusalem, there may or may not be a Bishop in America, I’m not sure)

Russian Orthodox Church (only a single Cathedral–under the Patriarch of Moscow)

Bulgarian Orthodox Church (Synod of Bishops under the Patriarch of Bulgaria, I think)

Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese (Autonomous under an Archbishop who is overseen by the Patriarch of Antioch)

Then two groups exist whose canonicity tends to be stronger the further away you are from the other of the pair:

Orthodox Church in America (Metropolitan of All America and Canada). In communion with Moscow and the Greek Archdiocese, among others.

Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (First Hierarch of their Synod). In communion with Serbia and Jerusalem.
Now, to confuse matter, quite a few Romanian Orthodox are in the Orthodox Church of America (preserving their unique practices therein). There is a Carpatho-Russyn diocese under the Patariarch of Constantinople, and I don’t want to even think about the Ukrainians. Then there are the odd assorted Poles, Czechs, Cypriots, and others who generally filter into other groups, and ROCOR is in communion with “Old Calendarist” Greek groups that would rather eat radioactive glass than be in communion with the Greek Archdiocese, even though the Greek Archdiocese is in communion with Serbia, which is in communion with ROCOR, etc.
Okay, so how did we get this scandalous mess?

Short answer: Bolsheviks.

Longer answer: Before the Bolshevik coup in Russia, it had been fairly well established (with some grumbling), that the Russian Orthodox Church had precedence in the Americas, or at least in North America. The oldest known active Orthodox missionary work in the Americas was done by St. Herman, Apostle to the Americas. St. Herman was part of the Orthodox Russian group. By Orthodox practice, in obedience to Scripture, Russia had laid the foundations, so other jurisdictions were not to build on them.

So, for a while, at least in theory, all Orthodox parishes in the Americas were under Moscow. However, some allowances were made to permit Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Rumanians, etc. to have their own language and practices. For the Russians, this wasn’t as big a deal as it might seem. They had a long history of translating Orthodoxy into other languages as they conquered Siberia, and the native Japanese and Chinese Orthodox communities are ultimately of Russian origin.

However, as was to be expected, there were tensions. Greeks didn’t like having to be under an “inferior subculture”. Rumanians, Czechs, Serbs, didn’t like being under Russia for historial reasons. The Arabs were often left out in the cold, altogether. Nevertheless, for all its problems, some form of unity was getting knocked together (hopefully more often than heads were knocked together). Sufficient converts were entering Orthodoxy in America that English-language liturgies were being explored.

And then the Bolsheviks. At first, the Bolsheviks told a pleasant lie–they would permit the Church to exercise its functions without state interference. As soon as it became plain this would not be the case, Patriarch St. Tikhon issued first an ukase calling for the defense of the Church in Russia against the Bolsheviks. In 1920, St. Tikhon issued an ukase telling Russian hierarchs and those Orthodox under Russia to organize under whatever Orthodox authority could protect them, as Moscow could no longer act independently.

So, the Greeks went with Athens, who placed them under Constantinople in return for Constantinople’s recognition of Athens as autocephalous. The Arabs went with Antioch, in essence, everybody “looked home”. This left the Russians in a real lurch. Some looked towards Constantinople and were placed under a specifically Russian Episcopate. Others remained tied to Moscow. Others determined that the ukase gave them effective authorization to form a synod wherever they might be and soldier on as a Church in exile.

The Russians in the USA who remained tied to Moscow were mostly immigrants. The Russians who formed the new synod were mostly refugees from Bolshevism. They formed ROCOR In 1970, the Russians who had remained with Moscow were granted autocephaly and became the OCA.

It should be noted that the Greeks underwent a very similar schism during the overthrow of the Greek monarchy. However, since Greece’s new government did not make it a habit of becoming mortal enemies of the USA and trying to shut down the Church in general, matters were easier to patch up (mostly).

So, around 1920, all these groups went off their separate ways. The following things have kept them apart since:

Inertia. Probably the number one cause.
The Patriarch of Constantinople. An odd thing to claim (especially since he is my Patriarch), but here is my reasoning: BARTHOLOMEW holds the opinion that he is automatically the rightful Patriarch of all “barbarian lands” (any territory outside the old Roman Empire) and of all “the Greek diaspora”. However, the claim is made on fairly shaky documentary grounds. Nevertheless, it is an impediment to unity in the USA. The only unity that BARTHOLOMEW seems to wish is unity under him. Perhaps he is correct in his reasons. Perhaps he is not.

The Russian Revolution. Like it or not, some people are still fighting the Russian Revolution. However, this matter is beginning to resolve amicably as those who collaborated with the Soviets and those who suffered under them get old enough to move on. There have been friendly talks between ROCOR and Moscow, but they are still at the very polite level. However, ROCOR still refuses to recognize the canonicity of OCA, and vice-versa.

Many of the other Orthodox jurisdictions no doubt do not want to be “swallowed” by the larger jurisdictions, and this will also lead so resistance to integration.

There are some red herrings that get waved about from time to time, but these issues are invariably charicatures.

Punctuation is good.

OCA was formed in 1970.
ROCOR in 1920.

It’s always Bolsheviks…

Thanks for the explanation.

The above looks good, so I will add just a few comments.

Quite a few Carpatho-Rusyns are under the OCA, as are the vast majority of Albanians. The latter have their own OCA diocese, as do the Bulgarians. I was unaware of the Bulgarian Church having its own hierarchy in the States; I’ll have to check on that. Jerusalem does not, to my knowledge, have a bishop in America, but just an archimandrite who reports directly to the Patriarch.

The chances for union between Moscow and the ROCOR in the next few years are quite good, IMO. A few years ago, two splinter groups (the Russian Orthodox Autonomous Church and the Russian Orthodox Church in Exile) split off from ROCOR, and took most of the fanatics and wingnuts with them. More and more ROCOR and OCA clergy are visiting each other’s churches, and relations among the laity are quite friendly. Many OCA laity commune at ROCOR churches, and vice versa.

The reason why the Patriarch of Constantinople is so adamant about staying in charge of the GOA is because Constantinople is, sad to say, a dying See. Unless the Turkish government changes their policies, the Church of Constantinople will likely cease to exist within the few decades, due to Greek emigration and the fact that the Patriarch must be a Turkish citizen and be approved by the government, yet the Church is not allowed to run any seminaries, which kind of cuts down on the number of suitable candidates. Being the head of the Greeks in America is really the only thing keeping the Ecumenical Patriarch afloat.

Thank you for the explanation! It makes much more sense to me now.

It always amazes me that learned men like the ones above can talk so calmly about the different Christian groups in the world today, and how they differ from each other, on the one hand; and on the other, they are not in any way troubled about finding out which one is the real true one intended by their God to lead men to His mansion in the next life.

Religion then for them is no different from the variety of cuisines in the world today or the diversity of hairdos.

As for me, maybe they have the same mind and heart as mine, God is all right, Christ is OK, Mohammed is acceptable also if I were born into a culture recognizing him as some kind of special emissary of Allah also known as Deus, Theos, God.

The tragedy of the whole mess, and a mess it really is, lies in the fact that these same people as the ones above discoursing on the different churches and their differences in beliefs have confreres who would kill and burn and devastate whole cities and commit genocides in the name of their religion.

I address myself to these persons as the ones who are now in this thread discoursing as I said so scholarly and sedately on their religious groupings, their differences, their organizations, how they came about, that you people should be able to come out and forward and admit that for you religion is no differnt from cuisine and hairdo, in terms of its crucially determinative role in assigning your good souls to the next world: heaven or hell. Namely, it’s not in any way determinative at all – for you guys.

Of course, none of you take this thing seriously, except those guys who are disposed to do suicide bombing in the name of their God, or to launch military conquest of Iraq.

Ha ha ha.

Susma Rio Sep

You don’t actually bother to read anything do you? I was talking entirely about different jurisdictions of the SAME CHURCH. All of them are Orthodox, thus all of them are the one and same true Faith.

I can speak so calmly because when one gets down to the root of the matter, they are all still the one Church with some adminstrative issues to work out.

Of course membership in one or the other is not determinative. They’re all fundamentally one group.

Try to get your head around that.

Whatever you are, Dogface, you are one son of your mother, a gentleman. Religion does make people characters of civility, and sad to say also fanatics without any sense of gentleness and bland behavior and speech. I think I should be likewise, namely: I should be more polite with my language, like our good learned gentlemen above.

Susma Rio Sep

What churches are Oriental Orthodox/non-Chalcedonian? Would those be the Armenians, Assyrians, Copts, Ethiopians, etc.? What did the Council of Chalcedon say, and what part of it, exactly, did they have a problem with?

The Oriental Orthodox communion is composed of the Churches of Ethiopia, Eritrea, Armenia, Egypt (Coptic), Syria, and India (Malankara).

The history of the council of Chalcedon is exceedingly long and complex, and I doubt a post here can even begin to do it justice, but I shall try to give a summary of the issues.

Really short version (from memory, so anybody else feel free to elaborate or correct this): The Council of Chalcedon was prompted by the heresies of Monophysitism and Nestorianism, the latter of which, although condemned at the 3rd Ecumenical Council, was still around and causing problems.

At the time, there were two main theological currents, one based in Antioch, and the other in Alexandria. The Antiochian school emphasized the Christ’s humanity, while the Alexandrian school focused on His divinity. The traditional Alexandrian terminology, formulated by St. Cyril, was that Christ was of one hypostasis, and one incarnate nature composed of His divinity and humanity, without mixture or confusion. In response to Eutychianism, which had the humanity of Christ subsumed into His divinity, the Council of Chalcedon changed the terminology, stating that Christ had one hypostasis but two natures, one human, one divine, united into one person. Eutyches was condemned as a heretic, and sought refuge under Dioscorus, the patriarch of Alexandria. One of the documents proclaimed by Chalcedon was the Tome of St. Leo, Pope of Rome, which, though Orthodox in its content (though the non-Chalcedonians would disagree), could also lend itself to a Nestorian interpretation. The Alexandrians were opposed to the Tome, and considered Leo to be a heretic. Dioscorus refused a summons to the Council, and was subsequently excommunicated. He is revered as a saint among the non-Chalcedonians.

So the Council of Chalcedon was proclaimed, and was accepted by the Empire, but was largely rejected by the non-Graeco-Roman Churches on the fringes of the Empire. The Chalcedonians accused the Alexandrians of monophysitism, and the Alexandrians accused the Romans of Nestorianism, and things have stood at that point since then, despite various attempts to reunify the two sides. The 5th Ecumenical Council was largely a restatement of Chalcedon, while the 6th condemned monothelitism, which was a compromise theology stating that Christ had two natures but only one will. The Orthodox position is that Christ has two natures and two wills, while the non-Chalcedonian position is that Christ has one incarnate nature composed of His humanity and divinity, and one united will.

Further reading:

The Orthodox perspective: http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/mono_share.htm

The non-Chalcedonian perspective: http://www.geocities.com/mfignatius/others/byzantine.html

A site seeking a common ground: http://www.orthodoxunity.org

The Oriental Orthodox communion is composed of the Churches of Ethiopia, Eritrea, Armenia, Egypt (Coptic), Syria, and India (Malankara).

The history of the council of Chalcedon is exceedingly long and complex, and I doubt a post here can even begin to do it justice, but I shall try to give a summary of the issues.

Really short version (from memory, so anybody else feel free to elaborate or correct this): The Council of Chalcedon was prompted by the heresies of Monophysitism and Nestorianism, the latter of which, although condemned at the 3rd Ecumenical Council, was still around and causing problems.

At the time, there were two main theological currents, one based in Antioch, and the other in Alexandria. The Antiochian school emphasized the Christ’s humanity, while the Alexandrian school focused on His divinity. The traditional Alexandrian terminology, formulated by St. Cyril, was that Christ was of one hypostasis, and one incarnate nature composed of His divinity and humanity, without mixture or confusion. In response to Eutychianism, which had the humanity of Christ subsumed into His divinity, the Council of Chalcedon changed the terminology, stating that Christ had one hypostasis but two natures, one human, one divine, united into one person. Eutyches was condemned as a heretic, and sought refuge under Dioscorus, the patriarch of Alexandria. One of the documents proclaimed by Chalcedon was the Tome of St. Leo, Pope of Rome, which, though Orthodox in its content (though the non-Chalcedonians would disagree), could also lend itself to a Nestorian interpretation. The Alexandrians were opposed to the Tome, and considered Leo to be a heretic. Dioscorus refused a summons to the Council, and was subsequently excommunicated. He is revered as a saint among the non-Chalcedonians.

So the Council of Chalcedon was proclaimed, and was accepted by the Empire, but was largely rejected by the non-Graeco-Roman Churches on the fringes of the Empire. The Chalcedonians accused the Alexandrians of monophysitism, and the Alexandrians accused the Romans of Nestorianism, and things have stood at that point since then, despite various attempts to reunify the two sides. The 5th Ecumenical Council was largely a restatement of Chalcedon, while the 6th condemned monothelitism, which was a compromise theology stating that Christ had two natures but only one will. The Orthodox position is that Christ has two natures and two wills, while the non-Chalcedonian position is that Christ has one incarnate nature composed of His humanity and divinity, and one united will.

Further reading:

The Orthodox perspective: http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/mono_share.htm

The non-Chalcedonian perspective: http://www.geocities.com/mfignatius/others/byzantine.html

A site seeking a common ground: http://www.orthodoxunity.org

The Oriental Orthodox communion is composed of the Churches of Ethiopia, Eritrea, Armenia, Egypt (Coptic), Syria, and India (Malankara).

The history of the council of Chalcedon is exceedingly long and complex, and I doubt a post here can even begin to do it justice, but I shall try to give a summary of the issues.

Really short version (from memory, so anybody else feel free to elaborate or correct this): The Council of Chalcedon was prompted by the heresies of Monophysitism and Nestorianism, the latter of which, although condemned at the 3rd Ecumenical Council, was still around and causing problems.

At the time, there were two main theological currents, one based in Antioch, and the other in Alexandria. The Antiochian school emphasized the Christ’s humanity, while the Alexandrian school focused on His divinity. The traditional Alexandrian terminology, formulated by St. Cyril, was that Christ was of one hypostasis, and one incarnate nature composed of His divinity and humanity, without mixture or confusion. In response to Eutychianism, which had the humanity of Christ subsumed into His divinity, the Council of Chalcedon changed the terminology, stating that Christ had one hypostasis but two natures, one human, one divine, united into one person. Eutyches was condemned as a heretic, and sought refuge under Dioscorus, the patriarch of Alexandria. One of the documents proclaimed by Chalcedon was the Tome of St. Leo, Pope of Rome, which, though Orthodox in its content (though the non-Chalcedonians would disagree), could also lend itself to a Nestorian interpretation. The Alexandrians were opposed to the Tome, and considered Leo to be a heretic. Dioscorus refused a summons to the Council, and was subsequently excommunicated. He is revered as a saint among the non-Chalcedonians.

So the Council of Chalcedon was proclaimed, and was accepted by the Empire, but was largely rejected by the non-Graeco-Roman Churches on the fringes of the Empire. The Chalcedonians accused the Alexandrians of monophysitism, and the Alexandrians accused the Romans of Nestorianism, and things have stood at that point since then, despite various attempts to reunify the two sides. The 5th Ecumenical Council was largely a restatement of Chalcedon, while the 6th condemned monothelitism, which was a compromise theology stating that Christ had two natures but only one will. The Orthodox position is that Christ has two natures and two wills, while the non-Chalcedonian position is that Christ has one incarnate nature composed of His humanity and divinity, and one united will.

Further reading:

The Orthodox perspective: http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/mono_share.htm

The non-Chalcedonian perspective: http://www.geocities.com/mfignatius/others/byzantine.html

A site seeking a common ground: http://www.orthodoxunity.org

Gah! <grumble grumble>

I was much clearer the third time! :wink:

The Definition finally adopted at Chalcedon (which is the lead document in thje Episcopal Church’s formal collection of Historical theological statements in the Book of Common Prayer):

Well, talk about messing up a joke!

That first line was supposed to begin “It was much clearer…”, as a bit of gentle ribbing of yBeayf about his triple-post.

I’ll go away quitely, now… :o