Neither the Senate bill nor the President’s executive action does anything to solve this problem. There will still be an abundance of illegal immigrants and they will still be preferred by some employers over those with work permits.
Of course, we could require E-verify for all employers, but that apparently isn’t going to ever happen.
Or we just legalize them, and then they can’t work for less than minimum wage. We should raise the MW as well (gradually, by small amounts).
If we just legalize anyone who comes here, then we essentially have open borders. It’s a solution, I just don’t think it would go over very well.
But as long as we have some type of immigration restrictions, there will be illegals and some companies will want to use them to avoid labor laws. E-verify is the best protection we have against that.
Legalizing the people who are here is very different than allowing others to come in and legalizing them. What do you suggest we do with the 12 million here, who aren’t going anywhere? What should their status be? What do you advocate for them?
Obviously, first step is to spay and neuter. Otherwise, if they keep making babies while we’re trying to deport them all, might get behind the curve. Shouldn’t be too big a problem, unless they’re, like, Catholic, or something.
I think the provisions in the Senate immigration bill, if fully enforced, are quite reasonable. But they still leave millions without status(deservedly so), and every new person that crosses the border or overstays their visa after the deadline in the bill(which I believe is 2011) also remains without legal status. We can’t just grant legal status to every person who broke the law. The only difference between that and open borders is that open borders is actually fair.
Hush now… adaher’s trying to tell us how he’s going to win the economically-conservative, socially neutral HENRY demographic by passing the hat to get rid of all the brown-skinned border jumping criminals. I for one am on the edge of my seat to see how this plays out.
Interesting stuff from 538.com. The electorate was just as diverse in 2014 as in 2008.
So see, we can win more of the minority vote. Or, there is not actually a minority turnout problem. There is a DEMOCRATIC minority turnout problem.
From the article:
Actually, you’ve got a white Democratic turnout problem too.
Reviving this thread since Matt Yglesias posted a great article on Vox about how in denial the Democrats are about their problems:
The Democratic coalition, even if it is a majority, is also unmotivated and ill informed. It’s led by some really smart people who think the Republicans are idiots, or at least bitter clingers, and it’s true. But as Adlai Stevenson famously said when told he was the “thinking man’s candidate”, “That’s not good enough. I need a majority.” And the Democrats, while they may have the thinking man’s vote, are sitting on a pretty ignorant coalition that only really thinks the Presidency is important. And to a large extent, the smart people steering that coalition have also fallen into that simplistic way of thinking. Meanwhile, the troglodytes in the GOP are eating the science crowd’s lunch all the way down the rest of the ticket.
Is that what you thought in the Bush years? 
And the Senate. I don’t think there is anyone who still thinks the GOP is going to retain a majority in the Senate in 2016. So the Republican base is convinced only the House is important, and that gerrymandered districts are safe and always stay that way. I don’t think we are going to retake the House, but we will pick up seats.
I think it’s more or less 50-50 whether Dems can take the Senate next year. Four-five seats is a pretty significant swing, especially when Dems are having problems fielding a good candidate in Pennsylvania, a state we should be winning every election.
Which Republican Party are we talking about, here? The Bat Guano Coalition or the Not Insane! No, Really, Not Insane! Cadre? How does a party that cannot control itself run a country? Best evidence to date is: not very well.
Only a massive groundswell of revulsion, dismay and disgust could help, and the Democratic Party probably can’t do that. Luckily for them, they won’t have to.
Wow adaher, I actually agree with everything you said in this quote. Damn.
Yup, it’s a real problem and the Dems need to start thinking about everything beyond the presidency. Yes, it’s the single most powerful office, but not a damn thing can get done legislatively without similar Dem control in the House and Senate.
The Senate might return to Dem control in '16, while the House will return to Dem control eventually, but probably not until sometime in the mid-2020s when millenials make up a larger share of the vote.
His main complaint seems to be that Bernie and Hillary (lol) are too far left, thus making the problem worse. This is ridiculous, he might be right about Bernie but he has no chance in hell of winning. Democrats know they have a problem with midterm turnouts, i don’t see how they are supposed to address this during presidential campaign season though. And i sure would love to hear this perfectly reasonable plan for capturing the white house the republicans supposedly have.
Its totally a classy plan, and its gonna be HUGE!
Well, whatever we have going on in California, maybe that’s the answer. We have practically nothing but Democrats in office from top to bottom
Bad news is, next year you all drink sewer water. Good news is, there’s not enough to go around. So, thanks, Obama!
The trouble is, I think, is that shrill obstructionist tantrums work. Because you can’t drive a car when a screaming child is stomping the brakes and jerking the wheel.
Obama gets elected.
GOP resolves to fuck the country to ash before allowing him a single victory.
GOP largely keeps much improvement from happening, aside from the ACA.
GOP lies about ACA (and really almost every single thing Obama has done), uses RW media to create hysteria about this being the last chance for nana to escape the death panels.
2010 election happens to great RW success with people driven to the polls behind those lies.
They use their power to gerrymander every single thing they can.
GOP gets a lock on the house until the next census.
Average Dem gets even more disheartened. Until 2020 none of it matters because the house is run by fucking imbeciles (Freedom Caucus) who literally want America to fail if it takes Obama down with it.
That’s not something that’s gonna drive folk to the polls. The GOP votes because of rage. The dems don’t vote because of despair.
I think his theory is that because Clinton and Sanders are so far left, that the Democrats are going to suffer down ballot even if they win the Presidency in 2016, then in 2018 comes the complete disaster since the Senate map is just ugly, ugly, ugly and the Republicans have proven they can hold onto the governorships they should not be holding. So you could very well see a situation after the 2018 elections where President Clinton sees 57-59 Republicans in the Senate, a few more in the House than now, and full or partial control of enough states to amend the Constitution.
A lot is riding in 2016 on whether turnout is a midterm problem or whether it’s an “Obama’s not on the ticket” problem, because pre-Obama, Democrats haven’t been too good at turning out in generals either.