The law in some cases, and corporate policy in others. You can’t force civilian freighters and tankers to arm. As for regular navies, afaik, several naval powers have ships in the area, but the ocean is pretty big and aside from the US most navies don’t have the logistics to stay on station indefinitely. And in the US we are having budgetary issues which makes stationing a major squadron there impractical, at least for the duration needed.
Yep…they were used to attack commerce raiders and subs that tried to take ships on the surface with their deck guns. When the ship would come into range they would pop up guns of their own and blow the commerce raider or sub out of the water.
I doubt it would do more than make them wary and more cautious, but it would certainly cut it back some.
Unfortunately, barring Somalia suddenly acquiring a stable, strong-willed government, the only way to effectively deal with pirates is the way you have to deal with termites, ants and other pests: fumigate the entire area. Since we have an aversion to genocide and genocidal acts on the most part, this is a non-starter as well.
Stationing a helicopter carrier off-shore and running regular and irregular sweeps that sink anything floating will get very expensive very quickly.
Definitely need alot more political will alright - political will for getting out of Aghanistan, to start with. I think I’ll keep that political will requirement one notch above protecting missionaries on the high seas for the time being, if you don’t mind. Maybe we need some more political will to increase the defense budget so we can plus up those Navy patrols off the Somalian coast? I’d go along with that, but first you gotta raise the cash to fund it. Overhead ISR of all types has been tasked at about 200% or more of full capacity for decades.
You really have no idea how much that would cost in terms of Naval resources at a time when our Navy is already stretched too thin in the face of shrinking budgets, do you?
Ya think? Maybe not? Or just no real clue at all? :rolleyes:
Maybe not a bad idea, but all the collateral damage and civilan casualties will have the rest of your liberal buddies all kinds of upset pretty quickly.
Could you possibly be any more naively dissonant in your contradictory thoughts?
Great idea. I wonder how much it would cost to retrofit something like that into a few dozen suitable vessles. Maybe We can get a bid from General Dynamics to do that for a measly few billion dollars. Blackwater will handle the personnel end. Hmmmm…
I like the “many of the issues” part. It’s easy to get all pissed off about Somali pirates. Too bad not unlike many international issues we face, it’s a lot more complicated that most people realize.
The “sink anything that floats” is kind of silly. You’re going to sink every fishing boat in the Indian Ocean?
See, unlike in the movies, pirates don’t wear distinctive costumes, speak in a distinctive accent, or fly distinctive flags. They look just like normal fishermen and sailors, except when they’re hijacking a ship. And that’s because they are fishermen and sailors who have turned to piracy.
As has been pointed out, you can’t defeat piracy on the ocean. Sure, you can blast every pirate ship you find, and hang the pirates from the highest yard. And then a local warlord recruits a few more suicidally foolhardy teenagers, gives them a few cheap AK-47s and RPGs, and sends them out.
Pirates are defeated on land, but eliminating their safe harbors, and the social networks that recruit more pirates. Piracy in Somalia is like a combination of playing the lottery and Russian Roulette. Sure, you might get killed, or you might get a huge payday. And when you go back to your village, you’re a hero because you’ve got giant stacks of money. And so the pirates are supported by their community, even though most of the community are not pirates. It’s a common human failing to view crimes against people outside your ethnic group as much less serious than crimes within your ethnic group. So a young Somali man who robs his neighbor is going to face furious traditional justice, but if that same young Somali man robs a multinational container ship he is seen as brave and clever.
So the real solution to the Somali piracy situation is the establishment of an effective government in Somalia that will prosecute the local pirates rather than give them triumphal parades. I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
Is it possible to create a secure, heavily-patrolled corridor through which ships can pass through? Or what about forming and escorting convoys through the area?
Are the merchant vessels doing anything to help themselves, or to make it easier on the navies to protect them, other than crossing their fingers and praying?
Except it is not about saving “just one life”, but several hundred, not to mention the value of the cargo.
I am sure we can afford to spend more than EUR 7.8 million - the current budget for the European task force. We can nickel and dime ourselves to bankruptcy the way we are now. Or we can determine how much we need to truly address the problem and be done with it. If it takes $1 billion, then that is what it takes. If it takes $10 billion, that is what it takes. We can spend it now or later - what do you predict the long term costs will be maintaining the status quo? And most of the ships we need are probably already built. It is just a matter of establishing a long-term duty station until Somalia can address the issue internally. And if that process takes another two decades, how will that affect the cost of shipping?
Honestly, I think we save money by cracking down hard now. But the last thing we need to do is put a spending limit on operations.
“Sorry, ma’am, we can’t send an officer to your house right now. Yes, I understand a man is in your house with a gun, but we already blew our overtime budget for the quarter. We should be able to send the ME out tomorrow though. I’ll notify your family - who is your next of kin?”
If we had to build that carrier from scratch and train a crew to staff, sure. But we have them - so what the are we using them for? If not for this, then why did we bother? Is it any cheaper having them stay in barracks in port? I doubt the marginal costs are that much compared to the alternatives.
The amount of money that “we” lose to piracy is actually just about on par with the amount of money Somalia loses due to illegal fishing by European and Asian companies taking advantage of the fact that Somalia is too poor and unstable to protect it’s waters.
Of course, there is no easy way to put a price on the number of Somalians killed and made ill by toxic (and likely nuclear) waste dumping by foreign companies. Another nifty side-effect of this trade is that foreign companies have been paying warlords in weapons for “permission” to dump their waste on the Somalian shoreline, ramping up the death and instability even further.
If we want to fight crime on the Somali shores, maybe we ought to start with our own criminals. Obviously nothing we do justifies this piracy, but there is a lot more to this whole story than meets the eye
Nadir, you do understand that I am talking about a multinational task force. You don’t think the combined navies of the OECD along with India and other regional navies don’t have the manpower to support this kind of operation? You realize that these countries are already spending billions, if not trillions, supporting these navies? And if this is not the purpose for those billion dollar investments, then just what the fuck are they for? To allow young men to jack off for four years while touring the world and seeing how many girls they can knock up in how many ports? So a bunch of old men can show off how awesome they look wearing white suits?
Seriously, what the fuck do we have navies for, if we are not going to use them for this? Force projection? Disaster relief? Glorified friendship ambassadors? And we really do not have enough naval vessels worldwide to undertake this?
That is plan B. And if we don’t have the resources for that, we might as well dry dock the damn fleets. They are obviously a waste of our time and money.
Couldn’t an effective virtual blockade be set up at relatively low cost, using satellites and AWACS (or whatever provides an eye in the sky these days - do any drones carry radar units?). Depends upon the amount of traffic outbound from Somalia. Set a limit of 120 miles for local traffic, such as fishing boats. Any vessel traveling beyond the blockade must report itself, or be considered hostile. Violations could result in a vessel investigating, or a hostile response, the response might depend on risk assessment for each situation.
The US Navy already protects vessels with Embarked Security Teams (ESTs) for high value USS and USNS ships that do not have an organic defense capability. I have been part of an EST off the west coast of Africa, where piracy is not anywhere near the other side of the continent. Large vessels are relatively easy to protect with a few M2HB .50BMG machine guns and night vision. We also have M4 carbines and an M9 sidearm should the ship need to be cleared. The M2HB can destroy pretty much anything that is approaching the ship, assuming the ammunition doesn’t run out. I am currently deployed on a somewhat related mission.
The units already exist for this mission. The training, expertice and PPRs are already here. It is a matter of money and will. Put us to work, please.
But they do. The deaths of these four Americans are the exception, not the rule. The Somali pirates are now holding over 600 hostages from other countries.
Remember, to these scumbags piracy and kidnapping are just business. It isn’t personal. They know that they’re much more likely to get ransom payments if they have a reputation for keeping hostages alive and returning them when the payment is made.
My visceral reaction to this piracy–especially since two of the people that were just killed are friends of a friend–is to send in the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, militias, suicide dolphins, Chuck Norris, Richard Marcinko, and the ghost of Bruce Lee and wipe the bastards from the face of the planet.
Then I calm down a bit and realize that we’d inevitably end up blowing some innocent fishing boats out of the water, pissing off the region with our “typical American overreaction,” goading the Somali pirates into killing hostages rather than holding them for ransom, and solidifying support for the pirates by locals.
It’s a very complex problem that can’t be solved by shooting from the hip. I do wonder, however, how well it would work if we put spec-ops forces in the region with instructions to quietly make pirates disappear.
I think the most effective response is to sink the pirate’s boats in port-and destroy the port areas. the ones who get to sea should be sunk at sea.
Once the word gets out that Ahmed and Muhammed went out and din’t come back, the attacks will cease.
International law supports this -deadly force in repelling pirates is justified.
Drone attacks would be a cheap way to do this.
