Why the hostility towards Passive/Aggresives?

[QuickSilver]

@AmericanMaid

Another aspect of Passive Aggression is that it can easily morph into Emotional Abuse. There’s a certain kind of abuse called “gaslighting” where the abuser can make the victim doubt their memory and sanity. If you call someone out on passive aggressive behavior, you usually get “What are you talking about? I only said X.” If this happens over and over, it gets to you.

:eek:

You must know my ex.
<sigh> It took me almost a year after moving out to feel completely sane again.

[AmericanMaid]

@QuickSilver

:eek:

You must know my ex.
<sigh> It took me almost a year after moving out to feel completely sane again.

Sweety, I grew up with that bullshit so I understand. You and me, two sane survivors

[jackelope]

@AmericanMaid

Another aspect of Passive Aggression is that it can easily morph into Emotional Abuse. There’s a certain kind of abuse called “gaslighting” where the abuser can make the victim doubt their memory and sanity. If you call someone out on passive aggressive behavior, you usually get “What are you talking about? I only said X.” If this happens over and over, it gets to you.

I’ve never heard the term “gaslighting” before; I assume it’s a reference to the film Gaslight?

Creepy movie. And a great reference.

[msmith537]

@BwanaBob

Maybe I’m one and don’t realize it, but I see/hear so many people rant against passive/aggressive people. These same people never seem to rant against plain old “aggressive” people. Why is this? Is being passive aggressive perceived as something worse than “outright aggressive”? I just don’t get it.

I think you KNOW why…

[msmith537]

Passive agressives don’t care about whether they inflict pain or not. They care about having to deal with other people hassling them. In the P/As ideal world, they basically go on being considered “nice guys” and other people simply forget to follow up with them or just don’t ask them to do anything again.

Problem is that you can’t trust them. They say the’ll do something but when the time comes “oh something came up” or they just don’t show up. I have a friend (well ex-friend I guess since I don’t really associate with him anymore) who apparantly does this constantly. He said he was going in on a summer house with some guys and basically never paid them. When the season started they finally were able to confront him about it and he basically responded that he couldn’t do it and didn’t want to “disappoint” anyone. Do you think he was trying to spare people’s feelings or just avoid conflict as long as possible? Think about how asinine that is to instead of telling them in a reasonible amount of time so they can find a replacement to simply ignore them.

People hate P/As because really their bahavior indicates to others that they think you are so insignificant, you don’t even deserve to be acknowledged.

[AmericanMaid]

@jackelope

I’ve never heard the term “gaslighting” before; I assume it’s a reference to the film Gaslight?

Creepy movie. And a great reference.

The term does come from that movie.

[Carol_the_Impaler]

@msmith537

People hate P/As because really their bahavior indicates to others that they think you are so insignificant, you don’t even deserve to be acknowledged.

That, because of what they do, the responsibility for their decisions/actions/lack of action gets shifted to others instead of lying at their feet, where it belongs. I don’t think that it’s that they want to avoid causing pain, they just want to avoid being clearly responsible for it.

[Carol_the_Impaler]

Crickey. The one time I don’t preview…

I meant "That, and because of what they do… "

[MsRobyn]

The Master speaks.

Robin

[Giraffe]

I think extremely passive aggressive people (like my mother-in-law) don’t do it just to avoid pain or confrontation – they do it because it works and lets them get their way. It’s like guerilla warfare. You avoid ever engaging directly, but instead snipe from the shadows until you wear down the opposition. It’s annoying but effective (which is even more annoying).

[Nametag]

I think many of those posting in this thread are confusing passive aggression with simple passivity, deceitfulness, or irresponsibility. PA is, first and foremost, aggression. The classic examples are those soldiers identified in Cecil’s article, who refused orders or quietly disobeyed orders due to hostility against the order-giver (or, in some cases, transferred hostility against some traumatic personage). If you’re just a lazy pain-in-the-ass, or even a tight-lipped martyr, that’s not PA.

[AsecretK]

@jackelope

In other words, one gets one’s way not by making one’s wishes known (which is not always “inflicting pain,” btw), but by acting pathetic and helpless in order to arouse people’s sense of guilt to the point that they’ll “volunteer” to do what one wants. The P/A person (a) gets their way, and (b) still gets to seem non-threatening.

This is my mother. She does this with just about everything. Instead of just asking she lays hints and then waits for someone to do something. If they just don’t get the hint or choose to ignore it then she gets pathetic…

Mom: I don’t want to bother you but are you going to stop at the store after work ?
Me: No, I had not planned on it
Mom: oh okay, well never mind

Later that evening…

“I would have asked you to buy me some milk and bread on the way home but since I asked if you were going to the store and you said no I didn’t want to bother you”

Like just ask. I will stop and get anything you need.

or she gets out the guilt trip…

“I asked if you were going to the store yesterday and you said no but now you went today and I would have “assumed” since I asked yesterday that you knew I wanted something and you could have called to let me know you were going”

Again, why not just ask instead of laying hints or getting mad after the fact cause you did not just ask.

I do not play this game with her anymore. If she asks I will help in any way I can but if she simply lays hints I ignore them until she actually asks. I played the “guilt” thing for way to long.

I found this on the internet awhile back. I do not have the cite but it sure hit home when I read it…

“Do not use manipulation on your children. God gave you authority over your child, use it with wisdom, kindness, and directness. Don’t force excessive or false guilt on your child. Do not teach them to become passive/aggressive in the way they deal with others. Be straightforward and kind, and teach them to be the same.”
About a year ago I started to see myself falling into this same pattern with my children and friends. I am reversing this attitude. If I need something or want something I just ask instead of waiting for people to offer or if something bothers me I bring it up right away instead hoping someone will notice that something is bothering me, need something or want something done.

I also am trying to teach the same to my children. If you want or need anything to ask. I can not read minds. If you seem upset I will ask what is wrong but if you don’t tell me then I can’t help.

[armedmonkey]

@nametag

I think many of those posting in this thread are confusing passive aggression with simple passivity, deceitfulness, or irresponsibility. PA is, first and foremost, aggression.

And I think one poster in this thread is confusing connotation with denotation.
::chuckle:: I’m well aware of the irony of being connotatively passive aggresive by addressing Nametag in the third person

[Kent_Clark]

@BwanaBob

When I was 15 and worked in a McDonald’s I was asked to “learn grill”. To me grilling==cooking which I loathed and IMHO was the hardest task in the store. It also didn’t pay any extra. I couldn’t refuse (be openly aggressive) as I would have been shown the door. So I “tried” to be a grill-man, sucked at it, and was restored to my regular duties.

What would have been my option? Quit? Be fired? or “Mess up and stay employed?”

You would have had two options:

1. Suck it up, accept that jobs carry lousy tasks with them and learn how to grill, just like everyone was expected to do, instead of figuring out a way to dump the hardest task in the store onto your co-workers.

2. Find another job.

[Little_Nemo]

When I was 15 and worked in a McDonald’s I was asked to “learn grill”. To me grilling==cooking which I loathed and IMHO was the hardest task in the store. It also didn’t pay any extra. I couldn’t refuse (be openly aggressive) as I would have been shown the door. So I “tried” to be a grill-man, sucked at it, and was restored to my regular duties.

What would have been my option? Quit? Be fired? or “Mess up and stay employed?”

I think most true examples of passive aggressiveness requires an emotional connection between the two parties involved. It’s this emotional element that fules the situation. In your case, I assume there was no such emotional element - you and your boss both had rational but conflicting goals, you saw that a direct approach would not achieve your goal, so you used an indirect approach.

[BwanaBob]

@kunilou

You would have had two options:

1. Suck it up, accept that jobs carry lousy tasks with them and learn how to grill, just like everyone was expected to do, instead of figuring out a way to dump the hardest task in the store onto your co-workers.
2. Find another job.

1. No, everyone was **not ** expected to do grill - they needed X amount of grill men (girls were not allowed back then). Only if a grillman quit did they try to get someone from the ranks. So it was not a question of dumping work on all of my co-workers. I should add that the next guy they tried loved to grill, so everyone was happy.

2. Yeah, I listed quit as one of my options.

[BwanaBob]

@Little Nemo

I think most true examples of passive aggressiveness requires an emotional connection between the two parties involved. It’s this emotional element that fules the situation. In your case, I assume there was no such emotional element - you and your boss both had rational but conflicting goals, you saw that a direct approach would not achieve your goal, so you used an indirect approach.

You would be correct. Although this took place in 1976, I remember it quite well; there was no real emotional element.

[Guinastasia]

Because at least if someone is outright aggressive, I can stand up to them. When someone is passive agressive, they’re being sneaky and manipulative, and sometimes it’s really hard to nail them on it.