Why the hostility towards states that want to secede?

Great Debates
61

And at the same time, white people owned a fuckload of black people. Doesn’t make it right.

Do you honestly believe that John/Jane Doe America can just go to whatever country they want with no issues? Are you a billionaire?

Without infringing on anyone else’s rights, yes.

Huh? Where did I say this?

I’m working my ass off to become an EE, but I’ll still never be one of the top income earners in the US. So it goes. But I do recognize that those people that you want to raise taxes on are the very people that pay the salaries of many Americans. Ron Paul said it best in his retirement speech: envy (class warfare) and intolerance (gay marriage, drug wars, etc…) are the biggest problems that this nation faces.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Are you fucking serious? Obama was president with a Democratic super majority for TWO FUCKING YEARS and he never once passed a budget. You seriously think he’s going to make a single fucking spending cut? And I don’t even mean LEGIT spending cut, I mean the typical politician spending cut (i.e. the gov’t spending won’t raise as much as previously expected, so that’s a “cut”)?

Don’t care about Romney. Never voted for him, never would.

HAHAHAHAHAHHA!!! DRINK THE KOOL-AID! DRINK IT UP! Obama didn’t try to end shit. Guess what!? Bush arranged the withdrawal date, Obama tried to EXTEND IT, Iraq said no, and Obama thusly took credit for ending the war.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/obama-a-dishonest-withdrawal-fro-iraq/2011/10/21/gIQAfCYM7L_blog.html

Again, I don’t give a shit about Romney. Obama won the election over Romney and I didn’t shed a tear. All of my anger came out after Ron Paul dropped out.

Obama hasn’t done shit in favor of pot. You know what his true stance on pot is? Same as his gay marriage stance: wait until he can figure out which stance gives him the best shot at getting re-elected, then support it.
Pretty much the rest of your post is Obama vs. Romney, which, again, I could give two shits about. I stayed up late watching the election out of curiosity, not because I was rooting for one or another.

62

That’s an awful thing to do to the millions of us Texans who voted for Obama.

If Texas leaves America, Austin’s leaving Texas.

63

Let’s look at the real world, shall we?

You’ve already pointed out that it’s difficult to move from one nation to another these days. Again, if the US breaks up into separate nations WHY are you assuming that there will still be free and equal movement between them? The only place other than North America where that is the case is Europe, where members of the European Union can easily move from one nation to another - but that doesn’t encompass ALL of Europe, just those who are part of the EU. Everywhere else, it’s hard to move from one nation to another even when they’re close neighbors.

WHY do you assume that a broken up US would follow the EU model and not the model of the majority of nations in the world?

Why do you assume the options will be better? What would prevent a broken up US from devolving into third world cesspits like Somalis? What would keep them from fracturing into smaller and weaker pieces?

How so? Because we have taxes? The US tax rate is among the lowest in the world, certainly lower than that of other First World nations, and in fact 40+% of the US doesn’t even pay Federal income tax these days. Oh horrors! We are so oppressed!

Are you being dragged from your house in the middle of the night, to disappear without a trace? Do you risk imprisonment for speaking out against the current administration? Please - you’re like a lot of other sore-butt Americans. You’re spoiled. You don’t realize how good you actually have it.

Oh, so now you don’t think we need 50 nations in the place of one, you think we need 51? Where does it stop?

Sorry - the trend since the mid-20th Century (with the notable exception of the USSR breakup) has been towards MORE union and larger groupings, not less. After all, many European nations have voluntarily given up such national trappings as their own currency and benefited greatly from it.

Look, you have a right to your opinion. Just realize it’s a minority opinion and breaking up entire countries is unlikely to make it a majority opinion.

64

No one said it was right - you accused someone pointing out the historical reality of imperialism as supporting imperialism. This is like saying someone who points out the historical reality of chattel slavery is a racist.

It would help if you would actually address the stances presented by people rather than what you imagine their stances should be in your m ind.

Of course not. Why the hell do you think making an additional [del]50[/del] 51 nations will improve that situation?

I’m asking that billionaires pay the same percentage of their wealth in taxes as, say, cab drivers do. Or EE’s. They don’t - they pay a considerably smaller percentage of their wealth than the middle class and poor do. Dropping their tax rates has not resulted in a sudden proliferation of jobs, either. Let’s stop doing what is not working rather than trying to do more of the same and expecting a different result.

“Class warfare” is the likes of Romney trying to kick the legs out from under those with less than they have.

Because he was opposed at every turn by Republicans determined to make him a one term president (which didn’t work, did it?). The PotUS is not a dictator. If the opposing party throws a wrench in the works it can stop the governmental process, as we have seen.

THEN WHY DID YOU REGISTER AS A REPUBLICAN?

Then why didn’t you attempt to emigrate when Ron Paul dropped out instead of proposing breaking up the entire US after a fair election?

Yes, my child, that IS how politicians operate. They find out what the will of the people is, then support it. Why do you have a problem if Obama is promoting the will of the majority instead of whatever his own personal views might or might not be? He wasn’t [del]hired[/del] elected to impose his own viewpoint, he was elected to promote the will of the majority. Why do you have a problem with that? Do you hate democracy?

65

Fwiw, you misread my sarcasm about Alessan’s comment immediatly above my own (“love of country”, etc) - easy to do online.

66

The federal government has the obligation of defending intrusions upon civil rights by the states. We’ve seen this with voting rights, education rights, abortion rights, all kinds of stuff. The most basic right that a citizen of the United States has is the right to be a citizen. The Supreme Court has held that it is unconstitutional to revke this right udner any circumstances:

Therefore, the federal governemnt cannot allow a state to remove the citizenship of any citizen without their consent. So, to me, I would only accept a state’s decision to secede in the instance that the vote was unanimous amongst the citizenship. In that case, I would have no probelm with it politically, although the logistics would still be extraordinarily difficult to resolve.

67

I still feel the need to point out 1. This proposed “hostility” has as of yet been cited and 2. The only hostility I’m seeing is the op’s towards anyone who doesn’t agree. Maybe he said it backwards…we want to secede and we wanna be dicks in the face of rational opposition.

68

I’m an EE. I would be in demand anywhere. I’m talking everyday Joe. Someone working in a warehouse or Wal-Mart, etc… do you think they would have an easier time moving from one state to another, or from the US to Australia/Europe/wherever?

Wow, so not only is the rest of the US against secession, but they’re actively conspiring against the seceding states? And you wonder why some people want an out from the bullshit we’re dealing with. And that’s not even considering some more “hostile” secessions. How would you feel if LA seceded and shut down the Mississippi River? Would you support violence against LA’s citizens to open it?

Nothing. What’s stopping the UK? France? Canada? Do you think CA/OR/WA is stupid enough to conspire against the rest of the US?

My primary question for you, at this point, is why do all of your scenarios involve portions of the US suddenly conspiring against the others?

Would be one of the best things that’s ever happened to CA.

Militaries? I have no idea bout numbers, but the US spends 5X as much on its military than does China.

THE SOUTHEAST WILL DRINK THEIR MILKSHAKE! WE’LL DRINK IT UP!! Seriously?

And Texans would no longer pay federal taxes.

And Floridians would no longer pay federal taxes.

Ditto.

Because I feel the D party is hopeless, the R party has a 1/1,000 shot at fixing itself. Most likely they don’t bother, and elect Rubio as the R nominee for the presidency in 2016 and cross their fingers that they get enough hispanic votes to win.

Think of the heaviest “Democrat” state in the US. You either thought of California or New York. Gay marriage is only legal in one of those two states. Plus, my priorities are about 70% economic, 30% social.

I have to be registered R to vote in the R primary in LA. I wanted to vote for Ron Paul.

Sure, why not. I say let states live with the consequences of their decisions. Any state that legalizes slavery will get its shit pushed in. Let them try. Just as we should let Cali live with the consequences of its dumbfuck laws.

See above. Be honest with me, how many states do you see doing this? Actually, let’s stop beating around the bush at this point. Be 100% honest with me: let’s say that 95% of the FedGov was eliminated and states were given the choice to enact whatever laws the wanted. Let’s also assume states were not allowed to force people to stay within the state. Do you think, assuming the person had the means to move, that their freedom would be greater or lesser than it was previously?

69

How would the state of Louisiana seceding infringe on your rights? Sorry to be a broken record, but are you against gay marriage? If you were a fiscal conservative that was tired of being ignored(BY BOTH PARTIES!), would you not seek some sort of refuge?

70

Yup. Good riddance to them.

71

lolthread

I say this with all honesty, BabaBooey. If any state or states actually tried to secede, knowing full well what happened the last time, I’d enlist in the National Guard that day. And if they didn’t need me, I’d call my buddies and form my own paramilitary squad. In whatever capacity I’d need to serve to ensure the opportunity to drive down there and shoot intransigent rednecks and “libertarians”, I would do it in a heartbeat. If it were my own cousins, I’d try to just wing 'em and hope that settled them down enough to go back home. But I’d kill those stubborn pricks if they made me! This is not your country, this is our country (hit it, John!), and if you’re not happy with the direction our democratic republic is headed, then you act like adults and try to reform it the democratic way, not by throwing a collective hissy fit.

72

Stop using the word “FedGov” if you don’t want to look like an idiot.

73

If the majority of any particular state wants to secede, then maybe I’ll pay attention. Wake me up when that happens.

74

Replace “redneck” with “people darker than a brown paper bag” and you’d fit right on in with all those “rednecks” that you’re so eager to kill.

By “last time”, do you mean the Civil War, or the Revolutionary War? Just curious.

75

Care to actually discuss the matter at hand or just call me names?

76

Why do you think an independent Louisiana would be any more to your liking than the United States? LA is a majority republican state, not libertarian. Take a look at the primary results: Santorum finished first, and Romney and Gingrich both beat Paul. The libertarian candidate got about 6% of the primary vote. The Republic of Louisiana wouldn’t be some bastion of economic freedom and liberty - it would be a socially conservative, evangelical theocracy.

77

Just re-read your post and this line really stood out. How would a peaceful secession “make” you do anything?

I find it pretty sad that so many of you are comparing a secession that would be primarily based on economic freedom to the South’s secession based primarily on slavery.

78

No such thing as a peaceful secession.

Oh, and

I’m white, you idiot.

79

listen, guy, i never said it did. *YOU *said there was all this hostility towards the rumblings of secession, but you’re full of shit. *YOU *are the only one who is hostile, and you’re hostile in the face of rational opposition to your irrational idea. you’re hostile because people disagree. you’re hostile because you feel impotent or whatever about government. all that shit is *your *problem. we just lived through 8 years of republicans doing whatever they wanted and things change just a little bit in the other direction and you think you have a right to lay in the aisle throwing a tantrum.

you know what? you do. you have that right, and by God good luck with it. but your OP is a manufactured bit of bullshit that you seem to have just made up. *YOU *have the hostile attitude because you think your idea should be considered viable. IT’S NOT, and here’s like 60 posts explaining why. this is, of course, extraneous to the fact the “petitions” are meaningless, undocumented nonsense to start with. everyone here is just telling you why what you are saying is irrational and childish. it’s because it’s irrational and childish.

80

The sunbelt state have grown in population in large part to 2 factors: immigration from northern states and immigration from Latin American countries.

I’m guessing the latino immigration thing would take a hit if Sunbelt/Dixie became its own country. I’m really darn sure that immigration from northern states would stop from increased barriers to immigration as well as common sense.

So I think that leaves sunbelt states stagnating in a pool of their own ignorance.