Hands Across America!
African-Americans get to use the word “nigger”, and Hispanic-Americans get to complain about illegals from south of the border.
Neither am I. I didn’t raise the issue, I’m trying to figure out what the heck astorian was raising it for.
Everyone just calm the hell down.
It would be unfortunate if I had to stop this car, now, wouldn’t it?
Has anyone ever seen, or heard of, an anti-immigration protest containing African-Americans?
The OP’s question was about anti-immigration sentiment. The groups of people I’ve seen on television, blocking buses and waving comically-misspelled signs, are uniformly white. What are they so upset about? I suppose it’s possible that they are expressing their solidarity with unemployed black Americans, but I doubt it. They don’t look to me like they’re angry about being deprived of their dream of cleaning hotel rooms.
Somehow I doubt that interpretation; nothing else in Franklin’s record supports it, and it was actually non-controversial in his time and place. Our FFs were not merely white supremacists, they were Anglo-Saxon supremacists, they believed that to be the most highly developed branch of humanity.
Take it up with Cesar Chavez, then. He considered “wetbacks” (his words, not mine) to be foreign scabs.
Are they not foreign or are they not scabs?
Oh, so you mean Hugo Chavez’s views were racist bullshit.
Care to say anything of substance in response to what the post actually said?
Or did you think “racist bullshit” was intellectually deficient enough to end the debate?
Did you just mistake Cesar Chavez for Hugo Chavez?
That’s quite telling.
Beyond that, in his post, he specifically claimed that Mexican immigrants were “foreign scabs” and yes, that is racist bullshit.
Lest anyone think I’m making false allegations about Cesar Chavez:
The purpose of ANY union is to get better wages and conditions for its members. The union CAN’T do that if employers are free to hire cheap non-union workers (i.e. “scabs”).
It’s NOT possible to improve pay and conditions for workers if there’s an endless supply of cheaper foreign labor. Cesar Chavez understood that, but it seems to elude a lot of Dopers.
The last sentence is right, except there’s nothing ‘alleged’ about it. The recent outrage, not necessarily any ‘explosion in anti-immigrant sentiment’ is at the apparent powerless of the federal govt to control the border in the face of wave of child migrants. There are some partial excuses for that (like 2008 law passed to make it more difficult to deport non-Mexican children with aim of preventing sex trafficking) but overall it kind of seems like ‘we’re at the mercy of events’ by Obama admin. And reaction against that is now not limited to the subset of Republicans previously energized over illegal immigration. IOW the politics of this issue are now shifting, at least for the time being, not to the benefit of the Democrats.
But on your first statement, in fact Democratic attitudes toward immigration are based in part on getting votes from both current Hispanic voters and presently illegal immigrants (and their legal children, etc) as future voters. That’s what political parties do. The reason the issue causes so much heartburn in general for elected GOP politicians from other than solid GOP areas is the mirror image: fear the issue will cost them votes (either from parts of the GOP base who are fans of talk radio, or of Hispanics). And of course the Democrats believe a more Hispanic demographic in the US will make the Democrats the permanent majority eventually. They could be wrong, but it’s just naive to think that doesn’t enter into decisions, including Obama’s. But as in the first paragraph, it would seem this approach has reached its limits for the time being with the child immigrant influx, which was partly triggered (not necessarily deliberately) by Obama’s end around Congress with the so called ‘Dream Act’. That was interpreted in Central America as an invitation. It’s not the only reason those children are sent at such great cost (relatively, to their families) and great risk of harm (by any standard), but the other reason such as poverty and gang violence already existed. Now a lot of people very pro-immigration in general and even tending toward sympathy with illegal immigrants (like myself) are going, WTF, don’t we have any control, when a small country somewhere has trouble can it just empty itself into ours? At a certain point it goes too far for a lot of people I think.
I live in a border community, and I see first hand how immigration has become a big business. One can’t simply go on the boat to Ellis Island with a dollar in their shoe as many migrants did a century ago. People who have resources, whether they live in Canada or Latin America, have access to legal means to immigrate, but it costs money. Asians, Canadians, and middle class Latin Americans can immigrate legally as they can afford the fees, bureaucracy, and duties such as renting a hotel next to a consulate or flying back home periodically to maintain their status. A peasant who seeks work harvesting grapes or cleaning floors will not be able to “do things the right way” in the same way.
The United Farm Workers (and not necessarily Cesar Chavez) did oppose a specific use of undocumented workers; their use as strikebreakers. The specific immigrants that broke the picket line faced the same sort of hostility that any other “scabs” would face from a union. However, it would be a gross misrepresentation to attribute a larger immigrant policy to Chavez, who was part of a family that faced force “repatriation” during the Great Depression., despite his status as an American citizen.
If you are suggesting that any middle-class person can come to the US and be able to live and work legally, you are incorrect. It is not possible to immigrate to the US on spec unless you are well above the middle class. You must either be sponsored by a family member, spouse, or employer, or play the diversity visa lottery, which Mexico (for instance) is almost never eligible for. THEN you get the fees and the waiting.
Astorian made it clear that he thinks Mexicans are “foreign scabs” and he doesn’t claim to be Hispanic.
I notice that nothing there supports your claims that he organized gangs to beat up undocumented immigrants.
I believe he was claiming that Caesar Chavez regarded them as such; would need cites to either support or refute that.
Your post is true overall, and true wrt to the specific fact that Chavez organized groups of union members to patrol the border and keep out illegal immigrants. Not surprisingly, since the greatest victims of large scale illegal immigration are working class Hispanic and black citizens.
Both the Pubs and the Dems are dishonest about the issue. The Republican big business interests love cheap labor and the effect increased population pressure has on land values. The Democrats love new captive voters and social service recipients.
Nope. You’re dead wrong on this.
Astorian specifically said that’s how he viewed them.
(bolding mine)
Notice he uses the phrase “for what they were”.
I also notice he’s produced nothing to support his claim that Chavez supported created mobs to beat up Mexicans who tried to cross the border.
Nice attempt to change the subject. The Huffington Post shows clear evidence that Chavez was hostile to illegal aliens,. and called them wetbacks. You COULD concede that I was right about that… but no, you try to forget about your previous error and try to nail me on another point.
What is the definition of a scab? A non-union worker who tries to take the jobs of strikers. By that definition, Mexican illegal aliens who tried to take jobs from American-born members of the United Farm Workers WERE scabs.
Are Mexicans American citizens or are they foreigners/ They’re foreigners.
Ergo, Mexican illegal aliens were foreign scabs. QED.
It’s not that hard. If you think I’m wrong, you’re saying either illegal aliens aren’t foreign or they aren’t scabs.
Which of those things are they not?
Remember something: Cesar Chavez wasn’t a Mexican. He was an American, born and raised in Arizona. He served in the US Navy. He did NOT regard illegal aliens as his brethren.
Was HE a racist? Be careful how you answer.