[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
I could do it. I’ve never seen the show but the writing for most television is appalling. I could piss a better script in the snow than what I’ve seen in the average 'Til Death episode.
[/QUOTE]
Put up or shut up. I expect to see your signed spec contract by the end of January. Should be easy, what with all those Hollywood jerks on strike.
[QUOTE=Elenfair]
Glee – another great suggestion I have for people who think they can do our job is to go to www.fanfiction.com and read the wooooonderful pages upon pages of fanfiction self-proclaimed “brilliant writers” produce. Most of these people think of themselves as good (or great) writers. Most of them also think they could write screenplays for their favorite shows. Hell, most of them are such fanatics that they probably have a better sense of continuity and minutiae than our script supervisors do… that said, if we left plotlines to them, everyone’d be boinking, expecting twins, dropping clams (clichés) and addressing each other by their full names while making declarations of great, undying luuuuurve. Heck - go to your favorite TV show’s website and check out the message boards. Try to read a thread or two and have a look at the average viewer’s ability to keep up with basic reading and writing skills…These are also people who have offered, kindly, to supply studios with material during the strike. Woo. Because anyone can write!
Most of the decent writers here would end up with a bad case of thesaurus overload and stilted speech patterns. Building good stories for the small screen isn’t as easy as it looks. You can’t just pull it out of your ass. It’s not the same as novel writing, or short-story writing. Writing dialog for television is not the same as writing for the stage, either. Some people have a knack for it, but for most of us, it takes practice. Lots and lots of practice and some darn good mentors.
[/QUOTE]
I could do it easy. I’m not “most people.”
As long as their is a residual sysytem of compensation in place, which I believe the producers want to preserve, then the writer’s are in the right on this strike. The producers simply want to pick and choose where they give residuals, certainly their right, but it seems arbitrary to me.
I’d just like to point out that the first rule of good television writing is “Show, don’t tell.”
So far, I remain unshown.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
It explains why they want residuals, it doesn’t explain why they’re entitled to them.
I’m with the OP on this. They get paid a salary up front and that’s all they’re entitled to.
[/QUOTE]
Okay, Dio. Did you actually read my post before responding to it? Did you miss the primary point that it’s a different fee structure?
I agreed to get paid one-third of what my illustrator makes because the residuals down the road should make up the difference. On the last technical book I wrote, I had two separate contracts: one was to write the book and the other was to do the layout. My advance for writing the book (four months of work) was less than my check for doing the layout (three weeks of work). Why? Because one involves residuals and the other doesn’t.
You can’t say, “you don’t deserve residuals,” when the up-front pay was negotiated down specifically for the purpose of including them!
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
If the employer wants to motivate the writers this way, then that’s their prerogative but that doesn’t mean the writers are entitled to it, any more than they’re entitled to free sodas in the breakroom or casual fridays.
[/QUOTE]
It’s also the writer’s prerogative to go on strike to get the residuals (or for free sodas in the break rooms, for that matter).
At the risk of appearing arrogant in linking to my own thread, some of this was discussed and covered quite ably over here .
I’m with the writers. Times have changed…residuals need to keep up with technology.
[QUOTE=friedo]
Put up or shut up. I expect to see your signed spec contract by the end of January. Should be easy, what with all those Hollywood jerks on strike.
[/QUOTE]
I have no idea what a “signed spec contract” is. Is that what proves a person can write a script? Are studios in the habit of buying – or even reading – unsolicited scripts? Are you presenting me with a fair or realistic challenge?
I’ve never specifically written screenplays but I do know how to write. I’ve even taught it (which ordinarily would mean I couldn’t DO it, but I’m the exception). I am reasonably confident that I could complete a professional quality script once I familarized myself with the technicalities (and I guarantee there’d be no babies, no “shipping” and no declarations of love).
I’m fully behind the writers on this one (especially since the SGA and directors’ guilds are likely to get only what the writers manage to successfully negotiate). I’d rather see my money go to the real talent responsible for the best shows on television- the Joss Whedons, Aaron Sorkins, Tim Minears, Jen Celottas, Michael Schurs, and Jane Espensons- than the suits at the networks who, 90% of the time, are responsible for canceling the really good stuff anyway.
There is one, and only one reason why television has been in a “golden age” for the past ten years or so, and it is the vast improvement in writing. “Buffy,” “Battlestar Galactica,” “The Sopranos,” “Scrubs,” “The Office,” “The Wire”- none of these shows would’ve been a tenth as good if it weren’t for their tremendously talented and hard-working writing staffs. Sure, there’s still plenty of dreck out there (“Heroes” in particular doesn’t have a writing staff so much as a “hackneyed, awkward dialogue” staff), but the good stuff is far more prevalent, and the bar for quality has been set far higher, than it ever was prior to the mid-90s.
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat]
Okay, Dio. Did you actually read my post before responding to it? Did you miss the primary point that it’s a different fee structure?
I agreed to get paid one-third of what my illustrator makes because the residuals down the road should make up the difference. On the last technical book I wrote, I had two separate contracts: one was to write the book and the other was to do the layout. My advance for writing the book (four months of work) was less than my check for doing the layout (three weeks of work). Why? Because one involves residuals and the other doesn’t.
You can’t say, “you don’t deserve residuals,” when the up-front pay was negotiated down specifically for the purpose of including them!
[/QUOTE]
I understand what you’re saying but I don’t think writers of print media are analogous to screenwriters. When YOU write a book, your writing IS the product. Screenwriters are salaried employees. Their work is not the product.
[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
It’s also the writer’s prerogative to go on strike to get the residuals (or for free sodas in the break rooms, for that matter).
[/QUOTE]
I agree that the writers have a right to strike. I just don’t particularly feel sympathetic.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
If the employer wants to motivate the writers this way, then that’s their prerogative but that doesn’t mean the writers are entitled to it, any more than they’re entitled to free sodas in the breakroom or casual fridays.
[/QUOTE]
Actually, I think there’s a different problem here. I do agree that there’s nothing inherently more correct about a residual payment structure over an upfront payment structure.
The problem here is that a residual payment structure has been agreed to already, but the studios are trying to skate their way out of paying. As InvisibleWombat has said, the upfront payment is much less in a residual structure than otherwise. Someone getting paid in this structure relies on the residuals for the bulk of their income, and if it is denied them then they’re simply screwed.
I think a more pertinent question to ask than “Are writers entitled to get residuals” is “Given that show writers are paid by residuals, is it sensible for residuals to apply only to what’s shown on TV but not downloaded off the internet or watched on DVD?” This is where the studios and writers disagree. Hell, an upfront payment structure might fix the problems, but they seem to be opting to stay in the residuals structure.
On preview:
Got a cite for that? Far as I can tell that’s not the case.
There are some great actors out there, even some who can turn crap writing into something watchable, but after discussing the strike with a few regular, non-Dopers I’m now convinced of something… there are quite a few people who think all actors improvise their lines!! Maybe it’s the presence of writer/actors or stories about comedians who like to improvise, or maybe it’s always been this way. Such is the cult of celebrity, I guess.
[QUOTE=Elenfair]
Building good stories for the small screen isn’t as easy as it looks. You can’t just pull it out of your ass. It’s not the same as novel writing, or short-story writing. Writing dialog for television is not the same as writing for the stage, either. Some people have a knack for it, but for most of us, it takes practice. Lots and lots of practice and some darn good mentors.
[/QUOTE]
I tried to write a script once, and this came after finishing several novels. I have a great ear for dialog, and I do action very well. I couldn’t get more than three pages of a script done. It’s *much *harder than you’d think.
Alright, Diogenes, so you think you can do the job?
Fine. You have four days. Write me an episode of either:
Law & Order, Criminal Intent
CSI: NY (which requires storyline A/B)
CSI (which requires storyline A/B)
Bones
I’m being kind, here, because I’m giving you a procedural and not humor. Since you’re a new writer, you may not necessarily know the show well, or have the show’s bible, but the good news is, all of these are easy to catch repeats of, so get to it! I just want a spec script. No descriptions (we hate descriptions), not a “shoot script”, so no camera or direction information, just headers, in proper format, and dialog. Figure about 50-60 pages will cover a 42 minute episode. Count in the right number of commercial breaks, “acts”, rise and fall of action.
The wikipedia entry on screenwriting will give you a starting point on the basic set up for a television script and actually has a link to other documents that can help you get set up.
This is perfectly fair. That’s what you’d be expected to do. All it requires is writing. I will gladly have a look at it when you’re done.
[QUOTE=Bosstone]
Actually, I think there’s a different problem here. I do agree that there’s nothing inherently more correct about a residual payment structure over an upfront payment structure.
The problem here is that a residual payment structure has been agreed to already, but the studios are trying to skate their way out of paying. As InvisibleWombat has said, the upfront payment is much less in a residual structure than otherwise. Someone getting paid in this structure relies on the residuals for the bulk of their income, and if it is denied them then they’re simply screwed.
I think a more pertinent question to ask than “Are writers entitled to get residuals” is “Given that show writers are paid by residuals, is it sensible for residuals to apply only to what’s shown on TV but not downloaded off the internet or watched on DVD?” This is where the studios and writers disagree. Hell, an upfront payment structure might fix the problems, but they seem to be opting to stay in the residuals structure.
On preview:Got a cite for that? Far as I can tell that’s not the case.
[/QUOTE]
Ok, maybe I’m misinformed here. Are you saying that the writers already have an agrement for reisdual but the disagreement is only about whether they should get them for DVDs and downloads. Was that not spelled out in their contract? What exactly IS the agreement?
AAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
WE ARE NOT SALARIED EMPLOYEES!
Thank you. (some may be, but most of us NOT)
There is an agreement for residuals in our old contract. This contract has expired. We are negotiating a new contract. The old contract had residuals for VHS and DVD. DVD was at a ridiculous rate, not really counting in packaged seasons and so on. There was no way to tell how things would end up being marketed, in the long term. There was no agreement for internet downloads because they did not exist at the time. AMPTP does not want to share profits. And it’s making profits hand over fist. It even tried to weasel its way out by saying it was a promotional expense (but it’s selling advertising space and making money there too AND selling episodes/feature length films to consumers).
You know, writing starts with reading!
[QUOTE=Elenfair]
Alright, Diogenes, so you think you can do the job?
Fine. You have four days. Write me an episode of either:
Law & Order, Criminal Intent
CSI: NY (which requires storyline A/B)
CSI (which requires storyline A/B)
Bones
I’m being kind, here, because I’m giving you a procedural and not humor. Since you’re a new writer, you may not necessarily know the show well, or have the show’s bible, but the good news is, all of these are easy to catch repeats of, so get to it! I just want a spec script. No descriptions (we hate descriptions), not a “shoot script”, so no camera or direction information, just headers, in proper format, and dialog. Figure about 50-60 pages will cover a 42 minute episode. Count in the right number of commercial breaks, “acts”, rise and fall of action.
The wikipedia entry on screenwriting will give you a starting point on the basic set up for a television script and actually has a link to other documents that can help you get set up.
This is perfectly fair. That’s what you’d be expected to do. All it requires is writing. I will gladly have a look at it when you’re done.
[/QUOTE]
Aside from one or two episodes of L&E, I’ve never seen any of those shows. 4 days is not enough time (in a household where I have to compete with a wife and daughter for control of the remote) to familiarize myself enough with the characters, history and tone of those shows to be able to write a passable episode. If you’re only going to give me four days, it’ll need to be something I’m already reasonably familar with. How about an episode of House or The Office.
Also, you should probably give me more like a couple of weeks. I do have a regular schedule to negotiate around and I work weekends.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Ok, maybe I’m misinformed here. Are you saying that the writers already have an agrement for reisdual but the disagreement is only about whether they should get them for DVDs and downloads. Was that not spelled out in their contract? What exactly IS the agreement?
[/QUOTE]
I suggest watching one of the Youtube videos linked by ArchiveGuy. Apparently the writers’ guild got locked into a 20 year contract made just when VHS and Betamax were getting off the ground, and while writers got full residuals for TV showings, they took a cut on video tapes in order to help keep costs down for a budding market. At least, that was the ostensible reason. Since then, the home video market proved to be a solid one, and DVDs and the internet have come into play. While DVDs got folded into the home video residuals, stuff shown online gets lumped into ‘promotional material’ and thus the studios don’t have to pay the writers anything for that.
It’s now time to renegotiate the contract. The writers want to be paid fairly for the home video share (right now they’re making 4 cents off every $20 DVD, and they’d like 8 cents), and also to be paid for internet downloads. The studio is resisting, claiming the internet market is still in its infancy and they’re not making any money off it. There is also concern that if internet and TV technology merge to the point where shows are only shown online, the writers won’t get any residuals at all, since the studios would claim it’s not technically TV.
(I hope I have the right of all that. News stories are more focused on what the strike means for viewers rather than the strike itself. If I’m wrong on any point, I welcome correction.)
What it boils down to is that the market and technology are changing. The writers’ guild wants to update the contract language to include the new technology and the studios are resisting.