OK, a guy in The Turtles is putting down John Lennon??!?
Well let me make the case then.
He was born April 1963, so he was the actual family that got ignored while his dad was conquering culture, media and music and having sex with whole flotillas. He was the inspiration and light in Johns household. And his life was subject to this immense “thing.” completely beyond his control. And everyone was profiting.
But that thing was righfully his too, in addition to all the other people going through it like Brian Epstein, Peter Brown, Maureen, or whomever.
Then Lennon had Alex Mardas sleep with Cynthia so he could sue ***her ***for divorce. And leave his son behind emotionally and in almost all ways we would recognize. And Cynthia let him do what he wanted. It was the big apple cart. Cyn could have been the richest woman in the world right now if she had just been a little different, not greedy, just more fair to Julian.
Julian had the worst of being his fathers kid. No special schools and a lot of people on the look out for something or to prove something. I saw an amateur interview with him poolside somewhere and it was very chilling. He said that during the infrequent holiday visits he saw this deep cruelty in the eyes of his father towards him. And it does break my heart.
If you told me I’d get disowned by that fucker after all that, I would not give peace a chance.
ETA:
Julian was the only child and sole heir to John, when John composed almost all of the work we care about. He was the inspiration for Beatles music on occasion, really important songs, in fact the biggest of them all, Hey Jude, Written by Paul to console him over the divorce. You can’t make this stuff up. Paul should have just adopted Julian.
If that happened to me (and I’m not saying it didn’t either) I’d be thinking about some instant karma.
The money is MINE, not yours or “society’s”. The government has already taken well over half of my earnings through Federal, State and Local taxes. I will decide who or what gets my hard earned dollars after I die. If I decide to give all the money that the government has allowed me to keep to the local animal shelter or my children, that decision is entirely up to me.
Technically Sean was left out of John’s will too. He left everything to Yoko and had her business partner as an executive of the will. Obviously she’s not going to bother with Julian.
I thought the instant karma comment was just ridiculous? Death didn’t hurt John, it hurt his sons. Both of them. It’s not like Julian felt this great relief and joy when John died. From all account, John tried to reach out to Julian around the time of his death, and mend fences.
Something like that happened in my family. Instant karma is my anger when I think of Julian being shit on by Yoko and family after John died, because John was too passive aggressive and cowardly to tell some minion to call some lawyer to do the right thing for his kid. “Community property” is a sleazy dodge protecting some and screwing others sometimes is my point.
I didn’t mean to make a case for assassination, I hope we understand.
But when one takes care of one kid and not the other one it must be asked what kind of human one is.
Not putting him down, so much as relating an interesting story. Kaylan wasn’t particularly self-congratulatory - he was mostly a fly on the wall who later that evening ended up drunkenly vomiting on Jimi Hendrix ;). But they had been warned Lennon could be a handful and apparently that evening he was.
I don’t think it was a unique experience. Of all the Beatles Lennon had the reputation of being a bit of a selfish and spoiled prick at times, with an ego the size of Toledo. McCartney had an equally huge ego. Harrison was haughtily self-righteous he wasn’t the egomaniac that Lennon and McCartney were. Meanwhile it seems Ringo was just Ringo.
I think it’s interesting how often Yoko Ono is blamed for Lennon’s behavior. She sounds awful, but he married her, he made the choices and she can’t be blamed for the choices he made.
I don’t think many people are shifting the blame in this thread, it’s just a generally recurring theme.
My heart breaks for the kid. It’s not about the money. It’s about being the rejected one.
No, I don’t understand. Because in this case, instant karma hurt completely innocent children. One of them who was already hurt. Your wording is completely off.
Given Yoko is at least 10 years older than John. The assumption was that he’ll out live her. And since he sucks when it comes to business. Everything was setup so John wouldn’t spend all his money after Yoko dies.
Being the ignored/ forgotten middle child, I know how it feels to be summarily dismissed. And there was no vast fortune to ease the pain. 
So my heart goes out to Julian. Sean has his own set of issues, which are no less valid. I hope they are getting along and visiting each other. I would like to see them perform together. Don’t know that I would pay money to see it, but I would watch it on tv.
“I’m not saying I advocate John Lennon being shot, but you can sure say he deserved it given how he treated people.”
:dubious:
:mad:
He was a jerk in many ways. Leave it there. Anyone claiming they know anything about his karma sounds like a fool.
Jeez, the guy already apologized for his hasty words.
In what way is what I said not supportive of children? At long last.
Do you think the word “karma” is only to be used when speaking about capital punishment meted out to bad parents without due process? WTF?
Why do you think instant karma means I want someone to someone to die, and that policing my language is the thing to do?
I apologized for something that didn’t even happen and it’s not enough. Fighting! Ignorance! Forever!
Deep generational pain and cruelty evoke strong responses in people and require strong language. If you don’t want to think about it in that way that’s OK with me. Saying that I think lennon deserved to be shot is too much. I mean he’s my favorite artist, after all. But he needed to be on the grid, with the law or social services, or the mental health system, based on how he was a parent to his kids. He was an unethical parent who treated his child with contempt.
People who have been, or known, abandoned children understood what my point was and that there was hyperbole in it, in order to say what hadn’t been said about Julian yet here. I thought I was making the place a little more interesting IIDSSM.
I can’t see the “foolish” unless I look outward here. Oh, there it is!
I think the only person who really said this was the drive-by thread reviver in Post #44.
Yeah, I should’ve just let it go.
John “Imagine no possessions. I wonder if you can.”
Julian “Oh, you’re making it real easy to imagine, old man.”
On the other hand it’s easy to lose perspective on money when you are a rock star. Back in 1960 when John was a young man and before hitting it big an average income was around $5,600. But then again, when he made out the will who knows what he thought a gallon of milk costs. He might have said he wouldn’t go out to the barn to molest a cow for anything less then $1,000. So, $100 thousand (or are we talking pounds?) could have meant anything from 20 years of frugal living to 100 gallons of milk to him.
Oh, yeah. I’m sure getting shot to death was one of the least painful encounters with a rabid fan John had.
One observation/explanation:
I went through the death of John Lennon and it was very stunning and surreal. I had been emotionally committed to his music since I was 6. But that was almost 40 years ago. When I think of him, I don’t think of his death as principle topic, and I don’t have an impulse to revenge on the killer anymore. I’m not litigating that anymore in my mind.
Child abuse is much more currently a topic I think about, and it applies here. So my talk might sound strange to someone who is still grappling with his death, and may not know how destructive he was to his own flesh and blood. That’s the part I am grappling with nowadays.
Lennon was a superfamous and rich person who said controversial things and had his life threatened while Julian was a toddler. That was Johns choice and not Julians.
Had there never been any consideration of what would happen if john had been assassinated while Julians fate depended on it? In all that time?
He would be pretty shabby to do that. Maybe it was malpractice of Epstein’s, but still, in the end, it’s your child and you’re an adult. So I wonder about that history.