I’m shocked to hear that Yoko high-hatted all of Lennon’s other relatives. Any record on how they treated her when John was alive? Yeah, if you’re related to someone who’s super rich, be careful what you call the likely executor of his will.
Did you ever hear Magical Misery Tour, the lennon parody that Tony Hendra did using johns words from the rolling stone interview? He covers some of this ground there. John felt that other Beatles, George and paul especially, were crude, racist and sexist about her in the beginning. I don’t know how that extended to others but he might have been sensitive to a lot of things coming from the family. Lennon was unloading a lifetimes worth of grievances back then.
But paul and george were adults and not John’s dependents. Julian was treated as a scapegoat basically.
Let’s say Julian had called her a “chink” when he was 7. (I’m sure he never did such a thing) This would have really meant he was asking for attention and probably in trouble somehow. But with narcissists you can’t be a child. You are considered culpable, for what they did to you.
What could you possibly be going on about?
What if Julian insulted her during a Leap Year??!? Would John be allowed to be mean to him once every four years?!?
This is serious, and not snarky, because I do care about you: Can you explain what you just said here, by relating it to my post? It sounds like you are making reference to the solar calendar for some reason and getting really excited. How does that relate with anything?
I am saying I don’t understand what you are asking. It sounds like you are asking us to imagine* some scenario where jerk John is somehow even jerkier, or his jerkishness is somehow highlighted in his treatment of Julian. It’s some reductio ad absurdum scenario that has no bearing.
John was a jerk. He was damaged and it manifested in how he treated Julian and Cynthia. He also wrote about, and in some ways demonstrated, a desire to be a better person. And wrote some brilliant fucking music. What more are you looking for?
*heh
You don’t understand what I said but you’re just making sure the place runs correctly, with the right ignorance fought in the correct way?
I said he was more than a jerk. It’s child abuse as I see it. You are pushing back because you want it to stay right there at “jerk”? Why do you have an agenda about the kind of father JL was? I already explained why I do. Why do you need to police content of other posters?
Originally Posted by Horatio Hellpop View Post
I’m shocked to hear that Yoko high-hatted all of Lennon’s other relatives. Any record on how they treated her when John was alive? Yeah, if you’re related to someone who’s super rich, be careful what you call the likely executor of his will.
I was responding to this in my previous few posts. Please look up at the OP. Have you read any of the last 10 posts for content?
Yes, you care passionately about child abuse so you are Freud-ing about people and lives you have no real view of. Was he abusive to Julian? Yes, from what I know, Lennon sucked as a dad to him.
This post means that John was a narcissist who took out his rage on his kid. (He also expressed that rage in the Rolling Stone interview.)
John and Yoko were too selfish and dependent to have taken his cursing, acting out, or up, or any way, as a sign that he needed help, or attention or love from them, you know those “love” people who needed to say it and do it 24 hours a day, and disowned him? So they never allowed him to be a child. In fact they never forgave him for being born, quite obviously. Narcissists will fuck you and then blame you for it. I hope that’s clearer. No freud necessary.
Let’s say all of that is right. As a poor angry wannabee rocker he got married when he shouldn’t have and had a kid that he shouldn’t have and he treated them poorly. Now what - revoke his Beatles license?
I guess if you want “now what” it could be maybe people (not us, we’re nobody) talking to Yoko about the way she distributes her money after her death.
Or it could be us nobodies reading and thinking about our own families and what we leave to them, I guess. That £100,000 was a lot of money back then but still made it seem like he was being cut out of the will given the amount of the estate. It’s not that uncommon to favour the children of later marriages, and looking at the way that worked with celebrities can be a helpful surrogate for talking about specific people we actually know.
Good post. Everybody gets wrapped up in whatever they are doing now. It is indeed far too common for people in second/third marriages to sort of overlook children from previous relationships. But to do so in something as formal and presumably thought out as a will is unforgivable. I get that Lennon wanted the bulk of his estate to go to his current wife. That’s usual. But what it meant to the kids is that Sean (through Yoko) got nearly everything, while Julian gets a pittance.
A good friend’s son is going through this right now with his wife. His wife’s father remarried and started a new family. All of his attention goes to the new wife and kids. The father has never even visited his daughter and husband at their home. The daughter dutifully visits when she is in town and over the holidays, but feels like leftover ham five days after Christmas. It tears her up emotionally, and obviously affects her husband, who thinks her dad is a piece of excrement.
I fully realize this gets pretty complicated from an estate planning standpoint. A current spouse has priority, but people with kids from other relationships need to make sure that all kids are treated as equally as possible in a will. Yeah, Lennon didn’t expect to die in 1980, and who knows what would have happened if he had lived to old age. But that’s why you write a will, to set things right in the event of the unexpected.
I would argue the same even with kids all from the same relationship. I know of a family where one son was given much more in the will than the other two siblings (the majority of a business and real estate went to one son), and it caused resentment from the other two siblings. I guess the favored son or daughter has been around since humans have walked the earth, but once someone dies and leaves a will, there’s no way to go back and fix it. So, pay attention to how things will be viewed while you’re writing your will.
Yup. Also in my experience, narcissists make a huge show about pretending to care about people and pretending to care about love when in public, but behind closed doors it is all manipulation, intimidation and head games.
Fuck narcissists.
I think that it’s well documented what a tool John was. He was a brilliant composer at times, of course, but his legacy will forever be tarnished by his callousness towards his family and friends. Yoko was certainly manipulative, but that is hardly an excuse for abandoning your son.
If he stayed with cynthia it be harder for Mark Chapman to reach him. Julian is a talented singer in his own right anyway.
/derail/ If Lennon and Cynthia stayed together, I’d wager Chapman simply would’ve married a Brit, instead, given the extent of his obsession. /derail/
He also sounds eeriely like John.
geroge,ringo. paul never asked juilan to record with them but they could of.
Back when George was still alive, there was some kind of show on MTV or VH-1 with behind-the-scenes clips of the making of “Free as a Bird.” Somebody brought up the possibility of the remaining Beatles recording a song with either Julian or Sean and George unhesitatingly replied “Sean.” Make of this what you will.