Why was the American public told not to wear face masks?

[DrDeth]

@SlackerInc

:rolleyes: You’re entitled to disbelieve it, but you go way too far to describe it as a “crazy conspiracy theory” when it has been asserted as a pretty obvious fact by editorialists at the New York Times, the Atlantic, Vox, and on and on. Not exactly fringe conspiracy rags, those.

Once again, you sound uncannily like the “abstinence only” crowd does when talking about condoms.

…
…

You cited the Atlantic, then I used your own cite to prove you wrong. I cant wait for more cites.

*You *sound uncannily like hitler and the nazi crowd does.

[SlackerInc]

Try to keep straight who you are talking to, DD. Confusing me and **Skywatcher **when that post is just above is pretty sloppy.
ETA:

@DrDeth

A would be wonderful, but as we can see from several posters in this thread- B is far more likely to be the most common attitude.

Speaking of cites, I’m waiting for yours to demonstrate what “posters in this thread” you were referring to here. To clarify, these were the descriptions of A and B:

I envision two polar attitudes from people.

A) I really need to get some groceries and medicine. I’m going to run to the store but I have my list and everything. I think I can be in and out in five minutes. I’m going to be super careful about touching things and I have sanitizer in my pocket so the minute I’m back in the car I can wash. A mask…yes, it may help, I’ll make one but I know it’s probably a hail Mary.

B) Wait, hey, a mask means I have no worries. I’m going to go about my pre-pandemic life, hanging out in bars and reporting to work or whatever. Excuse me while I open my mask to sip my beer at the pub. I’m already forgetting all about social distancing, hand washing, etc. …

Or was this just another wild, baseless accusation like your Godwining one against me? :dubious:

[enipla]

The ONLY reason that we where told not to ware masks is that Trump thought it would make him look bad. There was no data or analysis involved.

There is no planning other than the next lie that comes to his brain. And then he forgets his previous lie and gets mad when people call him on it.

[Colibri]

@DrDeth

*You *sound uncannily like hitler and the nazi crowd does.

Moderator Warning

This can’t be taken as anything else than a personal insult. This is an official warning.

Colibri
Quarantine Zone Moderator

[Colibri]

@SlackerInc

Once again, you sound uncannily like the “abstinence only” crowd does when talking about condoms.

@SlackerInc

Or was this just another wild, baseless accusation like your Godwining one against me? :dubious:

Moderator Note

And you can knock of personalizing this argument and snarky remarks.

Colibri
Quarantine Zone Moderator

[SlackerInc]

I looked for some cites for what I have been talking about (that masks do help to protect the wearer as well as everyone else, and that the propaganda saying otherwise from public officials in the U.S. was primarily aimed at protecting the supply for healthcare workers, something DD calls a “crazy conspiracy theory”)…and found so many that I finally had to just pull the rip cord. There are seemingly an endless supply of such cites, from legitimate, mainstream sources:

Can a face mask protect me from coronavirus? Covid-19 myths busted

Wearing a face mask is certainly not an iron-clad guarantee that you won’t get sick – viruses can also transmit through the eyes and tiny viral particles, known as aerosols, can penetrate masks. However, masks are effective at capturing droplets, which is a main transmission route of coronavirus, and some studies have estimated a roughly fivefold protection versus no barrier alone (although others have found lower levels of effectiveness).

Should Healthy People Wear Masks to Prevent Coronavirus? The Answer May Be...

[T]he U.S. government’s initial anti-mask messaging was so strong that the U.S. Surgeon General, Dr. Jerome Adams, tweeted on Feb. 29, “Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!”

In the next few weeks, experts’ tones became more equivocal, suggesting that a supply shortage, not necessarily a complete lack of efficacy, may have partly driven the U.S. government agencies’ earlier guidance. In a March 26 interview with basketball star Stephen Curry, Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said, “When we say you don’t need to wear a mask, what we’re really saying is make sure you prioritize it first to the people who need the mask. In a perfect world, if you had all the masks you wanted, then somebody walking in the street with a mask doesn’t bother me—you can get some degree of protection.”

So what Anthony Fauci said out loud is a “crazy conspiracy theory”?

COVID-19 Face Mask Advice, Explained - FactCheck.org

Benjamin Cowling, an epidemiologist at the University of Hong Kong, doesn’t buy the idea that surgical masks have no utility for the general public.
“Certainly I could believe they would work /better/ when used by healthcare workers, particularly when used in combination with other protective equipment and behaviors,” he said in an email, “but it is a big jump to say they are essential when worn by healthcare workers but useless when worn by others.”

The evidence for everyone wearing masks, explained

Based on the evidence, masks appear to help both the wearer and other people.[…]
By obfuscating and failing to fully explain the issue, experts told me, officials have likely sown distrust toward their guidance — and the public has rushed to buy masks anyway.
I can’t explain the motives behind the CDC’s stance. But based on my conversations with other experts and officials, it seems many people are afraid of saying anything that could exacerbate the PPE shortage for health care workers or get members of the general public to think — incorrectly — that they could ease on social distancing if they just wear a mask.

Everyone Thinks They’re Right About Masks

No matter their opinions on widespread mask-wearing, everyone I spoke with for this article agreed that health-care workers should get dibs on any existing medical masks. This might well be why public-health officials have been so loath to recommend mask-wearing more broadly: Hoarders have already begun to exhaust the dwindling supplies. Even so, “policy shouldn’t be made to accommodate a lack of the supply,” Bourouiba said. “It should create the impetus to generate that supply.”

It's Time to Face Facts, America: Masks Work

Because N95s block the vast majority of particles that try to pass through them, they are formidable barriers against microbes.[…]
Although surgical masks are not tightly sealed like N95s, the filters they contain are still a major impediment to microbes. The CDC and other health agencies often say that surgical masks catch only spurts of bodily fluids and very large respiratory droplets, and that they cannot filter tiny infectious particles. But this is simply not true.[…]
Neither hand sanitizer nor face masks alone produced a statistically significant effect on rates of influenza-like illness among 1,437 college students in Michigan; together, however, they reduced the rate by 35 to 51 percent. Similarly, surgical masks appeared to reduce the spread of flu within 84 households in Berlin when they were used within 36 hours of symptoms.[…]
In a study of 143 households in Sydney, people who diligently wore surgical masks as instructed reduced their daily risk of respiratory infection by an estimated 60 to 80 percent, but fewer than half the participants kept up the demanding routine.
In fact, this very issue has been cited (and even exaggerated) by health authorities in order to dissuade the public from using masks. “Folks who don’t know how to wear them properly tend to touch their faces a lot and actually can increase the spread of coronavirus,” Jerome Adams told Fox & Friends at the beginning of March. Yet in the same interview, Adams described how many seconds it takes to correctly wash one’s hands. The CDC and WHO have poured considerable resources into numerous websites, tweets, and videos that encourage frequent handwashing and meticulously demonstrate proper technique. If it’s possible to educate the public about better hand hygiene, why not teach them how to wear masks, too?

“Exaggerated”. Sounds familiar!

“Masks work in both directions,” virologist Julian Tang explained. “If everybody wears a mask, it’s double protection. Even if a mask is not 100 percent sealed, it is still a significant reduction in risk of transmission.”
“Originally, I agreed that only sick people should wear masks,” said Linsey Marr, an environmental engineer who studies disease transmission. “After observing this pandemic, I now think that if we had an infinite supply of masks, everyone should be wearing them when they go out in public.”

BOTH directions.

A 2011 review of high-quality studies found that among all physical interventions used against respiratory viruses—including handwashing, gloves, and social distancing—masks performed best, although a combination of strategies was still optimal.

More Americans Should Probably Wear Masks for Protection (Published 2020)

When researchers conducted systematic review of a variety of interventions used during the SARS outbreak in 2003, they found that washing hands more than 10 times daily was 55 percent effective in stopping virus transmission, while wearing a mask was actually more effective — at about 68 percent. Wearing gloves offered about the same amount of protection as frequent hand-washing, and combining all measures — hand-washing, masks, gloves and a protective gown — increased the intervention effectiveness to 91 percent.[…]

“For individuals working in certain essential industries, where they still have to go out every day, I think wearing a mask makes sense,” Dr. Fishman said.

What's Up With All the Contradictory Advice About COVID-19 and Face Masks?

Elaine Shuo Feng of the Oxford Vaccine Group and four other infectious disease specialists recently reviewed official recommendations regarding face masks as a defense against COVID-19 and found that advice varies substantially from one country to another. “Despite the consistency in the recommendation that symptomatic individuals and those in health-care settings should use face masks, discrepancies were observed in the general public and community settings,” they write in a March 20 Lancet commentary. Although “one important reason to discourage widespread use of face masks is to preserve limited supplies for professional use in health-care settings,” they note, “universal face mask use in the community has also been discouraged with the argument that face masks provide no effective protection against coronavirus infection.”

On the latter point, Feng et al. highlight “the essential distinction between absence of evidence and evidence of absence.” Although “evidence that face masks can provide effective protection against respiratory infections in the community is scarce,” they say, “face masks are widely used by medical workers as part of droplet precautions when caring for patients with respiratory infections.” Hence “it would be reasonable to suggest vulnerable individuals avoid crowded areas and use surgical face masks rationally when exposed to high-risk areas.”

“One important reason to discourage widespread use of face masks”. But I thought that was a “crazy conspiracy theory”! Feng’s group doesn’t sound to me like crazy conspiracy-mongers.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/01/asia/coronavirus-mask-messaging-intl-hnk/index.html

In the coming weeks, if they have not already, your government is likely to begin advising you to wear a face mask to protect against coronavirus.
For those living in Asia, such announcements will be a vindication of a tactic that has been adopted across much of the region since the beginning of the crisis and appears to have been borne out by lower rates of infection and faster containment of outbreaks.
In other parts of the world, this message may be confusing, coming after weeks of public health authorities, politicians and media figures confidently claiming masks do not help and urging people instead to focus on washing their hands and maintaining social distancing.
The tone of such claims ranged from condescending to frustrated, with the US Surgeon General Jerome Adams tweeting in late February – in all caps – “STOP BUYING MASKS!”[…]

Pivot to protection
Writing last month, Adrien Burch, an expert in microbiology at the University of California, Berkeley, noted that “despite hearing that face masks ‘don’t work,’ you probably haven’t seen any strong evidence to support that claim. That’s because it doesn’t exist.”
In fact, there is evidence of the exact opposite: that masks help prevent viral infections like the current pandemic.
Burch pointed to a Cochrane Review – a systemic analysis of published studies on a given topic – which found strong evidence during the 2003 SARS epidemic in support of wearing masks. One study of community transmission in Beijing found that “consistently wearing a mask in public was associated with a 70% reduction in the risk of catching SARS.”[…]

“Based on the research, face masks are much more likely to help than to hurt,” according to Burch. “Even if it’s just a homemade cloth mask, if you wear it correctly and avoid touching it, the science suggests that it won’t hurt you and will most likely reduce your exposure to the virus.”[…]

Trying to avoid mask shortages for healthcare workers appears to have been the main priority of those arguing against widespread their widespread use.

There’s that “crazy conspiracy theory” again! :smack:

[Colibri]

@enipla

The ONLY reason that we where told not to ware masks is that Trump thought it would make him look bad. There was no data or analysis involved.

There is no planning other than the next lie that comes to his brain. And then he forgets his previous lie and gets mad when people call him on it.

Moderator Note

And you can knock off the political potshots, which aren’t allowed in this forum.

Colibri
Quarantine Zone Moderator

[Colibri]

MODERATOR INSTRUCTIONS

EVERYBODY NEEDS TO CHILL THE HELL OUT.

Thank you ever so much.

Colibri
Quarantine Zone Moderator.

[DrDeth]

@Colibri

Moderator Warning

This can’t be taken as anything else than a personal insult. This is an official warning.

Colibri
Quarantine Zone Moderator

It’s clearly not a personal insult. It’s taking his statement:" Once again, you sound uncannily like the “abstinence only” crowd does when talking about condoms." and turning it around to show how ridiculous it was. Anyone can see that.

[Colibri]

@DrDeth

It’s clearly not a personal insult. It’s taking his statement:" Once again, you sound uncannily like the “abstinence only” crowd does when talking about condoms." and turning it around to show how ridiculous it was. Anyone can see that.

Moderating

Did the abstinence only crowd start WWII and murder millions of Jews? It is in no way “turning the statement around,” it’s a wild escalation. And yeah, comparing someone to Hitler and the Nazis is unequivocally an insult, and one of the absolutely worst ones you can make.

If you have any further complaint, take it to ATMB. Further discussion of this here will result in another warning.

Colibri
Quarantine Zone Moderator