No one in this thread (and very nearly no one at all anywhere) is arguing that the cops “made up the whole thing in order to strangle Garner in broad daylight.” No one. Your misrepresenting of the argument is silly and IMO being kind of a jerk. Not to mention that other possibilities than your three scenarios clearly exist. But I guess you’re going to completely dismiss the possibility that the cops might have been wrong; you certainly have done so thus far.
doorhinge, with all respect, can you see how this sort of dishonest argument is doing you no favors?
You requested a cite and I didn’t provide one. For that, I appoligize.
…Police sources familiar with the investigation said that the officers were tying to arrest Garner because they saw him selling untaxed cigarettes, which he had done in the past.
This source is not the equivilent of reading the official police reports of all the officers involved. What did dispatch know and when did they know it. Were officers dispatched to the scene because of a fight? Were officers dispatched to the scene because a non-police officer reported Garner for selling cigarettes? Were officers already in the area because that was their duty assignment? Did officers actually see Garner selling cigarettes? Who requested a police supervisor and when did they do that? Did the original arresting officers call for backup and how long did it take for backup to arrive?
All of these questions could be answered by releasing police reports and 9-1-1 recordings.
As far as I’m concerned 3rd party statements from non-eyewitnesses, including police spokespersons, may not be correct. I prefer to see the official documentation. I prefer to solve the puzzle of what actually happened that day.
In your cite of Norm Pattis’s article, Pattis writes, “Store owners on Staten Island had complained to local police that Garner was selling individual cigarettes, known as loosies, in front of their shops.” But what is his time frame? Was he speaking about past calls that shop owners had made concerning Garner’s illegal activities? Garner has been arrested many time before. Was Pattis refering to store owner calls made the day of Garner’s last arrest? Does Pattis make it clear that police did, or did not see, or could not have possibly seen, Garner illegally selling cigarettes? The answer is no, Pattis does not make it clear.
The answers would be in the police reports. If you want to know what the police saw, you’ll still have to ask the NYPD. I don’t have access to those reports.
doorhinge’s cite is actually pretty awesome since it shows how many different stories there are about what really happened including the claim that police witnessed the illegal sale.
I’m not buying this. I have witnessed in both NJ and NYC police arriving at a location because of a complaint and when they find nothing to arrest for, they leave. Examples include public sex, drug sales, alcohol in a park, setting off fireworks and marijuana smoking. Of course my anecdotal information doesn’t count as strong evidence, but I can’t see cops arresting someone for, say, selling marijuana and having no evidence other than “someone called and said he did” and having that go over very well with the officers’ superiors or judge.
That’s a nice sentiment. However, you asked for a cite and I provided you with a video, which, of course, you rejected. You found 3rd person accounts of what might have happened to be acceptable and demanded the same from me. I can work with your limitations. The video suggests, to me, that police did, in fact, witness Garner illegally selling illegal cigarettes.
Not sure how. There’s garbled conversation and a cop points at someone off camera. That doesn’t seem to suggest anything in particular about what they were talking about.
Ah yes…the NYPD that is known for trumped up charges and quotas…heck they even do this to their own that are brave enough to speak up against illegal practices.
Then you should have no problem proving that the Garner arrest was a trumped up charge. Please feel free to use as many 3rd person speculations as you can find.
Pot…meet Kettle What I do have is evidence that more than 80%+ of the people who were detained by the police due to the ILLEGAL stop and frisk program couldn’t have anything pinned on them. And that despite a massive number of arrests by the NYPD, Eric Garner wasn’t being charge OR convicted.
Knowing the numbers my guess is far more likely than yours and the main difference is that , I don’t make the claim that it is settled fact.
Charged OR convicted? Are you aware that Eric Garner is dead? What would you charge OR convict Garner of doing?
Why wasn’t the police officer who killed Eric Garner indicted?
The grand jury had access to police reports, medical reports, forensic evidence, and eye witnesses. The grand jury decided that there wasn’t enough evidence to push forward for an indictment against the officer.
An interesting albeit trivial point: was he actually under arrest when he died? Had he been read his rights? The right to remain silent was more or less moot, at that point, of course. Could have been tried in absentia extremis, I suppose, though his whereabouts would be known, to a fine certainty.
Though, as a criminal kingpin, he was probably well versed.
What I do have is evidence that more than 80%+ of the people who were detained by the police due to the ILLEGAL stop and frisk program couldn’t have anything pinned on them. And that despite a massive number of arrests by the NYPD, Eric Garner wasn’t being charge OR convicted.