Sniveling coward? Everyone I know (in real life) is a rah-rah “support our troops” type. I invite much scorn and criticism when I consider our invasion of Iraq as one unworthy of support. I’m not some hippy, anti-American pacifist either. I fully endorse warmaking when it is justified. This one is not.
All consequences of this war, including the killing of this woman, are on America’s hands, not Iraqi insurgents. A people facing overwhelming odds will resort to whatever they can to demoralize the enemy.
So, a verified minimum of 14,378 civilian deaths–and this is pre-Falluja. Roseworm, remind me again why the civilians in danger should be happy to see an approaching marine?
They are souless automatons who hate freedom with every fibre of their being. They are criminals and suiciders who can’t stand Democracy. They have no qualities that are remotely human and don’t even have the decency to speak English.
They are Evil personified.
In fact, they work for Satan and don’t even belive in our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ. They are savage animals and sub human. We must wipe them out utterly and completely because if we don’t this cancer of a people will come to Middle America and behead each and every man woman and child.
They can’t be reasoned with, they can’t be trusted, they are sniveling cowards who won’t even go to a stand up fight against overwhelming odds. They all hate women and Westerners for no real good reason except Osama and Saddam have indoctrinated them to hate us.
They don’t even cry or bleed red… just an evil black slimey goo that reisdes in their tiny shriveled hearts
Am I getting close… Is that who the Marines are fighting?
That someone is often me, Roseworm. If you doubt this, I suggest you check out my posting history.
I’ll go out on a limb and say nobody has more respect for the military on this board than me. (Lots of folks, however, are tied.)
That said, I don’t convey these messages in quite the same way as you do. I don’t feel your argument will convince anybody. Instead, it will only inflame.
It also shows insufficient respect for people who are indeed our enemy, and others unfortunate enough to live in a war zone.
I support this conflict, but I sure don’t do so blindly. Open your damn eyes, and you may indeed flinch.
Alright, that’s just fucking weak. You want to blame the US for this war, I understand that. But the only people responsible for the death of that poor woman is the person that stuck a knife in her. Don’t fucking defend bottom dwelling slime lickers for their actions. No one forced them to behave like mad butchers in a human cannibalism meat shop.
The insurgents are responsible for their own cowardly actions. Killing this woman did not help their cause. Screw them and may they have already met a fate that rids the planet of them.
Maybe it makes me look uninformed (duh) but I thought 14,000 was a lot :eek: Beforehand I had assumed there were no studies of number of civilian deaths.
And people still say iraqis are safer now than before invasion.
This sort of comment is every bit as stupid as the OP. This is not “good vs. evil,” not brave patriots fighting American invaders or noble Americans fighting wicked rebels. There are not two sides, but about a half-dozen.
Ba’athist diehards.
Sunni jihadists recruited from outside Iraq to fight the Americans
Shi’a rebels who want dominance over the Sunni and a theocratic state
Sunni Iraqis who want to get rid of both the Americans and the outsider guerillas.
Kurds who want their own country
The Americans, who are clueless and confused
I’m sure I’m leaving out the finer details, but that’s just a brief overview.
It’s an insanely complex situation, and the pacxk of you who think this can be boiled down to an “us vs. them” scenario are simple-minded naifs.
I think most of us are uninformed on this. I’ve pulled up that website from time to time, but I had no idea how large the number had become since last time I checked. Shit, that’s about 20% of the city I live in, killed violently as a result of this war, from the conservative estimate. The Lancet’s estimate is about one and a half times the size of my entire city, wiped out from this war.
Claiming Iraqis are safer now than they were pre-invasion is an insanity.
The butchers that killed this woman were butchers, I have no doubt; and though I tend strongly toward pacifism, you wouldn’t catch me weeping copious tears if the smart bombs could target only these butchers. But the smart bombs are cutting their way through more than fourteen thousand humans to get to the butchers, and that’s horrifying.
Many of those fourteen thousand, it should be noted, are civilians killed by the insurgents. Again, those insurgents who are targeting civilians are despicable. Although their guilt in these deaths is undiminished, the US also bears partial guilt, since our government has created the conditions in which the civilian-killing insurgents may flourish, has created conditions perfect for recruiting more civilian-killers.
Well said. Roseworm, I highly suggest you take a bit of advice from Mr. Moto - there are few posters on this board I can rely on giving out a reasoned and well-thought out comment, regardless of his being a conservative! He’s made me rethink many positions in the past. Your OP does nothing of the sort, if not the exact opposite.
That’s moronic. You can’t write off the torture, murder, and mutilation of a civilian as merely “a response to aggression”. It is never acceptable take outrage out on innocent civilians. To claim so would be to claim that the 9/11 highjackings were merely a response to America’s historically hamhanded and agressive middle eastern policies.
Even if you don’t support the war, any decent human being would hope that the animals who disembowaled an innocent woman and left her in the street end up paying for their crimes. (And because you yourself seem to have some kind of disconnect going on here, I’m going to try to prevent your next idiotic tyrade by clarifying that by “animals” I mean the specific men who commited the crime, not the Iraqi people).
Let me break it down for you: War crimes are never justitified. It does not matter if the cause is just, if the odds against them are overwhelming, or whatever. Torture, murder, and mutilation of civilians is never excusable, and you must lay what happened to this poor woman at the feet of the men who actually commited the actual crime.
On preview I see that others have responded to Alexanders idiotic inhumanity, but what the hell, I’ll hit submit anyway.
The attitude shown in the OP is the reason I will never be a conservative.
To say that the death of one of “ours” justifies the destruction of an entire city and the death of 100,000+ of “theirs” … is simply [color=red]madness.[/color
Roseworm, whatever morality yardstick you’re using – isn’t.
What makes you think the children they’ve sent over there to fight this stupid war have any more sense than the people who killed this woman? We’ve seen how Americans…your brave American soldiers…treated enemy prisoners. There is nothing inherently right or good or smart about the troops. Your blind loyalty is naive at best.
There is NO excuse for what the insurgents did to the woman in your OP. None. Those people should be put away, executed, whatever the law of the land applies for such disgusting actions.
But to make such a broad and general statement about how people who have had to bury their children, who died from grievous injuries, with no medicine, no anasthesia to even dull their pain, in their fucking GARDENS, should be happy to see Marines with guns headed in their direction is beyond willfully ignorant, and IMO verges on being ignorant with malice.
You, my dear Roseworm, can go fuck yourself. You don’t speak for me. You don’t speak for alot of Americans and people of other countries who are hurt and disgusted by BOTH sets of wrongs.
I’m going to ignore the rest of this (because really, why bother?) and just respond to this one phrase. I think it’s too often that people look at a horrible and abhorrent act and call the perpetrator a monster or soul-less animal or what have you. I think that’s a cop out – it’s just an easy way to avoid having to face the fact that human beings do horrible things. Murder, rape, genocide – these aren’t commited by soul-less beasts, they’re commited by men. (And women, but statistically speaking mostly by men.) To ignore this fact also means ignoring the factors that lead to such events. Acknowledging that there are factors that lead to people commiting horrible crimes isn’t the same as excusing the criminals. And it’s only by attacking these factors that we can prevent these things from happening again. Punishing the criminals just isn’t enough.
Incidentally, this is one of my major problems with the Bush administration – they’re attacking terrorists while leaving the root causes of terrorism largely untouched.