Well, the guys who beat up Rodney King got minorly inconvenienced at least. So, um, can I get a hurrah for Law, Order and Justice ? :o
I’d be interested to know if those clauses were part of the definition of civilian a couple of decades ago.
Congratulations ! You found a cite proving that language and word definitions were updated following the trends and usages of people using that language ! You must be so proud.
It dependence who the police chief is and courts.Some cities do nothing and some cops do lose the job.
I’m sure in the past things like police brutality and over use of force was more a thing.
What kind of actual statistics are there. I’m wondering if cops are actually worse, or if it’s just everyone nowadays has a video camera and a Youtube account. You remember the “Midnight Crew”, the rogue Chicago cops that tortured suspects into confessing which put a few on death row, was from the 1980s.
Thank you, Kobal2. I’ve brought the sites before, but you didn’t see police, much less firefighters excluded from the definition of “civilian” before 9/11.
Perhaps you should look for better sources of information.
Which makes sense, considering where the word comes from and what it fundamentally means, in legal terms especially.
The fact that “civilian” has functionally become a derogatory word as attested by the second definition of the dictionary.com cite is kind of troubling, honestly.
Former military coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan have experience in policing those zones. That makes them think they are perfect for domestic policing and they apply for those jobs. With the training and mentality they learned in the military. Thus, various law enforcement agencies get militarized, much to the great annoyance of lifetime professional law enforcement who were not in the military, and also to the annoyance of the surviving family members of those who die from acute lead poisoning.
What’s the percentage of Iraq and Afghanistan vets in law enforcement?
.
Makes me wonder, if the rooks that would have been going into the force in the mid to late eighties, would have grown up watching various death wish and Clint Eastwood (dirty harry movies.) By the time the car 54 and adam 12 era cops had retired, those rooks would have been up to about captain level.
Would this be divorced from reality, or is something else at play
Declan
I’ve met quite a few but can’t give an official number. I’ve heard that 20-25% of returning vets seek a career in police work or something similar, but I don’t have anything to cite that.
Hard to tell in the 70’s and 80’s, which was worse 52 or 23 division. The band that wrote that song, were downtown centric so their field of view was rather narrow.
Declan
Well, that’s all a good thing, right? A general improvement? Cops shouldn’t be allowed to get away with any of the shit you’re describing, should they?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but this sounds like your original question wasn’t phrased accurately. Because to me, this seems like a flat-out admission that you know cops* have always been racist and violent towards black Americans (criminal or not), but that doesn’t count because …
But it’s an important issue now because whites are finally starting to experience a fraction of the treatment that blacks have always had to deal with and that’s just outrageous. :dubious:
- As a whole, not every single individual.
I would really like to see some actual evidence that cops are any worse or better now than they were in the 80’s and 90’s. Having lived through those decades, I can assure you there were plenty of asshole police around. Some of the more famous ones have already been mentioned. The only things I can think of that are different, which have already been brought up are:
Increasing militarization and SWAT style tactics.
Tasers and other “less than lethal” weapons.
More video, which means that when police abuse their authority, it’s more likely to be seen.
But as individuals, I don’t think Cops are any better or worse than they’ve always been. If anyone thinks they are, hopefully they have some evidence.
I’m not really adding anything by saying this but:
More people have cameras now, so when a cop does something abusive or criminal it is more likely to get recorded and shown nationwide. The media can create an environment of delusion. For example, many americans think crime and war are getting worse, when they are actually getting better compared to the past. It is just that the media covers crime and war more, creating the illusion that these problems are worse.
Having said that, the war on drugs and the war on terrorism, combined with a lot of vets who are experienced in working in a war zone, then coming home and trying to become cops despite those jobs not being the same likely make the police a lot more paramilitary and aggressive in nature. The % of people who have been arrested or convicted is much much higher than in the past. The police devote huge chunks of their existence to arresting the mentally ill and drug users, something they didn’t do nearly as much in the past. Due to the drug war, the ‘war’ on the mentally ill, etc the police have become more nakedly hostile and confrontational towards those society deems of little value. Non-whites, the poor, the sick, the young, etc.
Here are a couple of books worth reading on the subject.
Also keep in mind the rates of domestic violence among non cops is about 10%. Among cops it is 24-40+%.
http://www.womenandpolicing.org/violenceFS.asp
So it isn’t an illusion to think cops are more violent, they take that violence home with them.
Regarding the last part, domestic violence by cops is hardly anything new.
For better or worse they do have very stressful jobs and have always had absurdly high rates of suicide, alcoholism, divorce, and domestic violence.
Members here made it clear in the past there was more police brutality and abuse of powers.Yes I’m aware in the past many officers where KKK and would pick up blacks and beat them up or kill them and dump them in woods.Just get the movie Mississippi burning.I’m a aware in past protesters wear beaten up.And civil right activist they would beat them up or kill them.
So yes there is less police brutality and abuse of powers.Less Clint Eastwood types.
But what I was getting at is the new trend of officers being stressed out or frustrated and taking it out on non criminals and public safety fire/EMS so on.
When officers arrest news reporters , fire or EMS it makes big news.I don’t remember officers doing that in the past like today.
Officers in past seem to know who the bad guy was and is not the case today.Do not forget most of public ,court,media and police brass was like if you a bad guy and fight with officers you deserve to be roughed up.You don’t like to get hurt than next time do not fight with the police.If you armed with gun or knife you deserve to be shot by the police.If you do robbery or B&E you are garbage.
What has changed is liberal ideas in public ,court,media and police brass mind so called use little has forced necessary where in the past use has much force to get the situation under control.In the modern world bad guys are looked has lost hopeless souls many situation do not know any better or control over one self and thus police use little has forced necessary to get person under control.In past they where viewed by the public ,court,media and police brass has garbage.
I think in some ways this boost police morality.Now the public ,court,media and police brass want front line officers to be like hippies and many officers are getting stressed out or frustrated and taking it out on non criminals.