You hate the police. What's your remedy?

Great Debates
1

I’ve heard from several people, both online and in real life, that cops aren’t good. This argument takes several branches, which I don’t feel I need to outline. Basically, lots of people don’t like police officers. So, let’s find a solution.

A) State why you dislike law enforcement personnel.
B) State your method for fixing it.
C) If this involves removing the organisations altogether, suggest a method to maintain law and order.
D) If you don’t like law and order (;)), explain why.
E) Give your location (as general as you’d like), for statistics’ sake.
I wouldn’t count myself among those who dislike cops, so I can’t really begin.

2

Allow me to continue the not-beginning by not counting myself amongst your target audience.

3

I’ve had both very good and very bad experiences with the police. Each encounter has been something I’ve attributed to the officer involved, and not police as a whole. I don’t hate “the police” as an entity, and I don’t know anyone personally who does.

I live in a suburb of LA, and grew up in South Central, if that’s helpful for your statistics.

4

Its really a mixed bag. I’ve dealt with good officers, and bad. Plus, now that my sister just became an officer, I can’t really go on hating them all.

5

A) Many are arrogent jerks who think they are above the law and better than anyone else. The beatings and the shooting the wrong people aside, it’s the attitude that so many have. The few I’ve known in real-life (out of uniform) didn’t act any different than they did on the job. One honestly believed that covering for another cop that broke the law was right and good and couldn’t understand my position that cops should be held to the same standards as the rest of the population.
B) No idea, change human nature maybe?
…
E) Denver, Colorado

6

I have no issue with police, but as a suggestion for how they may become more beloved…

[anecdote]I was walking along the street in Tokyo and a white guy calls me over. He wants me to come translate Japanese for him in the local police station because, even though the person he is there to talk with is Czechoslovakian, you aren’t allowed to speak anything but Japanese with prisoners by Japanese law ( :dubious: .)

Going up to the prison floor (the women’s section) I am however to find myself surrounded a bevel of some of the most consistently beautiful women I have ever seen, all in police uniforms…[/anecdote]

I felt more positive towards them! :smiley: Hell, it’s been tempting to start hanging around the police station and see if I can’t pick any up (but that would probably not be wise.)

[Off topic end of the anecdote]The really funny thing about this is that the guy I was translating for (according to him) was like the head of Security for the British Nation (or something like that) so as we’re sitting there waiting to be let in, he’s all sitting there cussing and like, “You know, if this wasn’t bloody Japan, I could just send in a bunch of large men and she would be out like that. But now I have to fly a all around the world and sit here and not even be able to talk proper and blahdeeblahdeeblah”

The Czech girl was just in for working in a hostess club (which is illegal for foreigners to do). (And you somewhat have to wonder how a Czech girl becomes, “A friend of the family” to the head of Security of Britain…) But most likely she was just going to be banished from the country and deported. So he was going to have to come back a few weeks/months later to get her stuff out of her apartment (if it wasn’t all stolen by her fleeing roommates) since she would be going straight from jail to trial to the airplane.

And in the end, midway through our meeting with her, and after having spent an hour reinforcing the idea that a single word of any language but Japanese and we’d be out on our asses, the lady with the girl on the other side of the glass says, “Eh, just talk English.”

Ah well.[/The end]

7

A) State why you dislike law enforcement personnel.

To be honest, I don’t dislike law enforcement. Most of my experience has been quite good. HOWEVER, I am concerned with recent events in Las Vegas. There have been several officer related shootings of late that have resulted in death, and yet not one officer has ever been found guilty as long as I have lived here. One recent case had a young kid, in handcuffs, who ran away from the police car They shot and killed him as he ran away. I mean, seriously. how exactly do you justify shooting and killing a 17 year old kid, in handcuffs, running away from a police car, and blasting him in his back? And the police officer got off with “justifiable” shooting.

B) State your method for fixing it.

Tell the NRA to sit on it and twirl…and I firmly believe without those stupid rights to own handguns, 95% of crimes would stop. And show me one other country in the world that has this many murders who don’t allow every fuckin’ yahoo to own a gun.

C) If this involves removing the organisations altogether, suggest a method to maintain law and order.

As stated, my personal experience with law enforcement has been good.

D) If you don’t like law and order (), explain why.

Seriously, who doesn’t like, and demand, “law and order”, and I mean in real life - but I like the television show as well.

E) Give your location (as general as you’d like), for statistics’ sake.

As stated, Las Vegas…but the same goes for NYC, Chicago, LA and even in Berlin, Germany. Have had dealing with police in all those locations (major situations and minor) and have never had a problem.

Out of curiosity…what caused you to start this thread…any personal bad experiences?

8

A) Two main reasons: Bad experiences, and a dislike of the attitude.

The bad experiences are fairly simple. I’ve had a cop tell me flat-out that they’re not going to bother investigating a crime my parents and I were the victims of because “it wasn’t important.” That same cop, same day, asked me extremely rudely “Why are you still asleep at nine AM, don’t you have a job?” (I did have a job working nights, and yes, I called and complained about that). I’ve had a cop put blatent lies in his report about an accident I was in (I said x, he put that I said not x). I’ve had a cop literally run me off the road as I was on my bike. I’ve heard a cop telling a store clerk that he won’t arrest anyone other than teenagers for shoplifting. I’ve had a cop nearly draw his gun on me and a friend because we were sitting in a park (there was no sign saying the park was closed after sunset.)

Beyond that, it seems to me that cops tend to way overstep their boundries and try to interpret the law. That’s not their job: their job is to see what the law says and what the situation is, and enforce the law. Their job isn’t to decide whether you’re worthy or not of escaping charges or anything like that. That’s something that needs to be left to judges, prosecutors, and other people who actually have studied the law beyond memorizing things.

B) I don’t know. More oversight, perhaps. More control of cops - make them report in more frequently or something. Keep them from lounging around 7-11 for three hours on my dime. But I don’t claim to have an answer.

D) There are far too many versions of it, and every time I turn on the TV and it’s on, it’s one of three episodes I’ve already seen. ('cuz…Law and Order? The TV show? Geddit?)

E) I grew up in suburban NJ. I’m currently living in Ireland, and I like these cops more (mostly because I’m not afraid that they’re going to flip the hell out and start beating me or get too twitchy and put a bullet through my head.)

9

How do you reconcile this ludicrous claim with the fact that nowhere near 95% of cimres involve a gun of any kind (legal, illegal, handgun, shotgun, rifle, etc.)?

10

Another from Japan.

The stereotype of police officers in Japan is it’s the job that younger farm kids take when the older brother inherits the family business and they’re too dumb to pass the college entrance exams and get a real job. They’re not viewed as violent or dangerous, just frustratingly lazy, dense and ineffective, with a greater than average leaning toward xenophobia when it comes to foreigners. In my own experience, all many of them really seem prepared for is giving directions, which they do quite well.

The frustration becomes outrage when the “I don’t want to get involved” attitude starts costing lives:

Shiori Ino, a student in Saitama went to the police to report a stalker who had been threatening her. They told her they were too busy and pressured her to file a complaint. When she did anyway, they altered the records afterwards, downgrading it from a “complaint” to a “report” which doesn’t require any action to be taken (and none was). Shiori was murdered by men hired by the stalker one month later.

Masakazu Sudo, a company employee, was kidnapped by three youths and tortured for over two months before being murdered by them. During this time, Sudo’s parents repeatedly went to the police and begged for help. The police refused.

Kuniaki Uranaka, a student in Kobe, was being beaten up by a group of gangters. When the police arrived, he ran into their car and begged for help. The gang members pulled open the police car door and dragged him away, before telling the police to turn around and leave. They did. Uranaka’s body was found the next day.

A) I dislike them in the same way that I dislike a lazy co-worker. He may be a nice guy and fun to hang out with, but there’s a job that needs doing and he isn’t doing it.

B) Hard to say. It would probably require a radical top-down reform, right down to the job description. Like how many Japanese companies had to completely rethink their purpose and shake off a lot of dead weight at every level after the bubble of the 80’s burst.

D) No problem with law and order. I’d like the police to take an interest in it as well.

E) Tokyo, Japan.

11

I’m sorry, but the statistics just do not back up this claim.

Telegraph Article

12

A - Abuse of power, esp moving violations off dute. If it’s safe for them to do it, it should be safe for the public, if it’s safe for the public it should not be illegal. If it’s because of their training, the public should be able to take equivalent training and be allowed this too.

B - Reliance of the citizen orginizations for most issues, gun safty, respect and use training in public schools.

C- Law enforcement woud still exist but will be used mainly for special situations and to direct citizen task forces.

D - Law and order has to make sense, setting a law that you have to drive a certain speed in a area makes sense, but setting it intentionally lower then the speed you want people to go makes no sense. We need honest laws, not a guessing game that aloows you to be pulled over for traveling at a safe speed.

E - NY

13

A) I dislike law enforcement personnel because, largely, the people who seek jobs within law enforcement do so for the wrong reasons and because the system is so corrupted that the few honest members around are either quickly assimilated or else driven off. I’ve always felt that those who seek power and authority should not have it.

B) It’s pretty much an impossible task because the corruption runs from top to bottom and is so ingrained into every moving part of society that the entire system would need to be torn down and rethought.

C) If complete removal from society of just law enforcement were possible, my suggestion would be to let natural selection work its course for a while and not worry about law and order. The less people that need to be policed, the less policing there needs to be.

D) Power corrupts.

E) Centralish Jersey.

14

I’m with the bulk of the people as to why they don’t like the police and I share similar reasons. If anything, they should be held up to a HIGHER standard. It’s hard to be corrupted, lazy, ineffective in some moments, then ham-fisted the next and inspire respect. One of the things that 9/11 and the bevy of cop drama tv shows, is that they get amazing press and get lauded for just doing their job.
I’m in Detroit, and I believe that police, and government at large, is an agent of the people. If the people, tomorrow, decided they suddenly didn’t want or need the police or government anymore, it’d be gone.

Police, for one, is a major expenditure on a municipal government.

How would I fix it? Oversight. Hopefully oversight by citizen-run neighborhood watches which would have the final say on such matters. Perhaps monthly or bi-yearly inquiries into the police. Police is necessary (unfortunately) because some people will work to take advantage in anarchic situations.

Also, I wish for it to be known that not all cops are complete assholes. It could even be a “bad apple” type scenario, but those bad apples should be exorcised and put behind a stapler instead of a handgun.

Sage Rat, next time you encounter any of those hotties, pick a few up and Fed Ex them onver my way, sil vous plait.

Also, I’d like to see the availability of guns to be SHARPLY curtailed as well.

This thread’s either going to the Pit, or Great Debates. There’s no middle ground over here.

15

I’m with the bulk of the people as to why they don’t like the police and I share similar reasons. If anything, they should be held up to a HIGHER standard. It’s hard to be corrupted, lazy, ineffective in some moments, then ham-fisted the next and inspire respect. One of the things that 9/11 and the bevy of cop drama tv shows, is that they get amazing press and get lauded for just doing their job.
I’m in Detroit, and I believe that police, and government at large, is an agent of the people. If the people, tomorrow, decided they suddenly didn’t want or need the police or government anymore, it’d be gone.

Police, for one, is a major expenditure on a municipal government.

How would I fix it? Oversight. Hopefully oversight by citizen-run neighborhood watches which would have the final say on such matters. Perhaps monthly or bi-yearly inquiries into the police. Police is necessary (unfortunately) because some people will work to take advantage in anarchic situations.

Also, I wish for it to be known that not all cops are complete assholes. It could even be a “bad apple” type scenario, but those bad apples should be exorcised and put behind a stapler instead of a handgun.

Sage Rat, next time you encounter any of those hotties, pick a few up and Fed Ex them onver my way, sil vous plait.

Also, I’d like to see the availability of guns to be SHARPLY curtailed as well.

This thread’s either going to the Pit, or Great Debates. There’s no middle ground over here.

16

A) State why you dislike law enforcement personnel.

Personal experience from when they were the strong arm of a corrupt oppresive state good enough? Current corruption and incompetence? I know there are good cops here, but that doesn’t mean I have to like all of them. The good individuals have to prove it, rather than have that be the default assumption (as the State tries to train/brainwash into us from the cradle.)

B) State your method for fixing it.

Pay them more to remove incentive for corruption. Come down HARD on the corrupt ones. Have a strong, independent, responsible IA-type force, with real teeth.

C) If this involves removing the organisations altogether, suggest a method to maintain law and order.

Not possible to do without a police force in the current state setup. Though Dredd-style Judges would be cool!

D) If you don’t like law and order (;)), explain why.

I’m an Anarchist :slight_smile:

E) Give your location (as general as you’d like), for statistics’ sake.

Cape Town, South Africa.

17

Funny. That’s the exact stereotype of Danish police officers as well. (The joke runs that whatever you do, don’t open your conversation with a Danish police officer with the words “So, I guess your brother runs the farm ?”)

18

Pretty much what soulmurk said.

  1. I’ve met some decent cops. Some. But there is a culture among law enforcement that I dislike mightily. It is natural, of course, since they see the underbelly of society every day. But still, that culture needs to be controlled with an iron fist. Zero tolerance for abuse of power under shield of law.

  2. Got me. A possible but impractical solution is what the military does: constant rotation of personnel. Kinda hard to do with cops.

  3. & 4. Order is over-rated. :smiley:

  4. Southern California

19

Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates.

20

The police are individuals, so any reasonable person can only judge each officer individually. Some people have said, and I will correlate, that I have had very good experiences and terrible experiences when dealing with the police.

Because of the good, helpful experiences, I cannot really blame the institution of the police for the bad situations. And because of the terrible situations, I cannot simply say “all police are great!”

It’s a necessary social institution. However, because of its place of authority, it opens the doors for types of abuse that otherwise might not happen. The solution isn’t to hate the police, but to ensure that decent people become police.