All the standard reasons, especially the abuse of power and the fact it’s almost completely impossible to nail them for anything.
Abolish
Law and… wait, you lost me.
Because there’s no law and order among most other animals, and they seem to get along quite well. I’d rather live in small tribes where everyone understood they’d get more out of life by cooperating. Hippy dream? I’d prefer a dream to living the life of any one of at least half earth’s population. And removing law enforcement would be a giant (if unprobable) step towards ending this self-destructive society.
Yeah, and I don’t like the police because they take my lsd.
Ruining peoples lives, locking them up in steel cages for unjustifiable reasons. A substantial portion of their work involves busting people for “victimless crimes” (drugs, prostitution) and even though they do good work at helping people, the bad outweighs the good.
The fact that they choose to be police officers, knowing what the system is like, is showing tacit support for the system, thus lowering my opinion of police officers tremendously. And don’t give me that “it’s their JOB” excuse, that doesn’t fly with me. I believe that it’s impossible to enforce a wicked law without being wicked yourself.
Very dubious. While I was stationed near Tokyo (1990~1996), the Roppongi Police station had a female officer whose job it was to interview in English foreign individuals who had dealings (requests for assistance, suspects in crimes, and other interaction with the police) with the the Japanese police.
Interviewing subjects is probably a lot different from letting them talk to visitors. Plus, I would imagine that English isn’t as much an issue for them as compared with Thai, Indonesian, or whatever since the goal is, I assume, to make sure that the prisoner and visitor aren’t saying anything that can’t be understood by the person overseeing the meeting. Otherwise you wouldn’t know if they are talking about how to break out or kidnap the chief of police’s kid or whatever.
This link is saying that any language is allowed if the overseer person gives the OK, though they never said that to me (and in fact there was a sign in the visitting room that said to only use Japanese.)
This was at the Shinjuku Police station (West on Ome Kaido…) just in case you’re doubting the credibility of the story. And no, I didn’t ask for the British guy’s card or anything, so…
Well, I was military while in Japan so I had a few bennies other foreigners would not have had if apprehended by the coppers (I never was, by the way–didn’t do any crimes). For one, I would have been entitled to a military-provided translator.
Yeah, Roppongi and Shinjuku were two completely different animals. FWIW, I thoroughly enjoyed the Shinjuku and Shibuya areas much more than Roppongi.
Another thing I noticed very much from my years in Japan: even if there was a new law telling governmental types to do something different than the way they’d been doing it for the last bazillion years, they’d still do it the old way.
I don’t hate the police. But I do recognize there are problems with law enforcement. The first recommendation I’d suggest would be more accountability - as Spiderman put it so well “with great power comes great responsibility”. Cops that break the law should be punished for their crimes.
My second suggestion is that a lot of the time when people are complaining about the police, they’re really complaining about the laws the police are enforcing. I think we should essentially decriminalize all victimless crimes. The laws that remain would prohibit real crimes that hurt people and the public would not mind seeing those laws enforced.
I have to admit here: I think this is either an intentional strawman or an attempt to “out” the die-hard anarchists / disestablishmentarians.
As many others have said, I don’t dislike (all) law enforcement personnel. I dislike the failings of some (IMO small) portion of the law enforcement community.
Things that I have seen which piss me off:
1.) Believing that the rules / laws do not apply to them. &
2.) Caring more about XXXX than doing their job (i.e. protecting and serving the public.)
3.) I also believe in eliminating victimless crimes, however that is tangential to the main problem.
I firmly believe that the first two attitudes are the cause of the whoppin’ large majority of issues we see (i.e. those that make it to the media, or those that individuals witness). I believe that there are a number of individuals acting as law enforcement agents who value their comfort &/or paycheck over protecting the public - as in making thier beat a safer place to live.
However, I will also say that the above two attitudes piss me off coming from anyone.
B) State your method for fixing it.
1.) More uniformity in police procedures - not necessarily in operational specifics (I understand the need to not broadcast to the criminal element how they will be hunted), but rather in review, retraining, legal knowledge, and QA.
2.) More civilian (i.e. non-police) oversight. So long as inconvenient details can be hushed up within the LE community, abuse of power and mistakes can be covered up. Bringing errors of judgement and morals to the surface will enable retraining and / or removal.
C) & D) - N/A
E) Give your location (as general as you’d like), for statistics’ sake.
Rhode Island, USA
You mean to tell me that you either a.) have never met any obnoxious cops (or those that misuse their power), nor seen them in the media, b.) meant the discussion in this thread to be limited solely to the people who think that we could exist without a legal system, c.) honestly believe that disliking one cop means disliking cops, or d.) some other bizzarre reason for drafting such a polarizing OP?
I do believe that there is an inherent and incorrect “either-or” in your questions.
A:) My personal view is that the police can be too authoratative. As someone who has read books by Milgram and whatnot, I realize it is pretty easy for a police officer to bully a civilian out of invoking his rights with very little effort. I think the police have too much psychological authority over society and as a result the rights others have fought hard for (like the ability to resist authority) are virtually never used. Most people never invoke their rights and I think the police know how to capitalize on this fact to roll back the bill of rights. Seeing how many crimes the police are involved in strike me as either victimless or relatively minor I don’t feel that this level of mental manipulation by the police is necessary.
B:) Address policy mentality. Ex-police Chief Norm Stapler called it the “paramilitary bureaucracy” the police have. They feel they are military men instead of peacekeepers, that it is their job to conquer civilians instead of protect them. This decreases respect for the law and cooperation with people we are supposed to trust to help us. Since I’d guess 90-98% of people are relatively decent and do not do crimes that seriously harm their neighbors the police damage their support base.
Another problem I have with the current system is how heavy handed and foreign it is. I think that leads to the police not really being involved in emotionally delicate situations. I don’t think it is good to have the same agency deal with sexual abuse as deals with hostage situations. I don’t think people or organizations can handle those different situations. I know the police are divided into groups where some specifically handle things like sex crimes, but evenso they are still part of the police system.
As it stands about 90%+ of rapes, child molestations and a large number of situations of domestic violence and schoolyard bullying are not being addressed. These are major issues affecting society and they are happening underground w/o any real aid for the victims. I think the fact that the police are designed as a foreign, intimidating paramilitary organization helps contribute to this lack of response on their part as people jsut don’t feel comfortable discussing these issues with them. There needs to be more community oriented law & order to deal with these problems and less of a foreign police force. I’d support more neighborhood watches, more neighborhood authority figures people can trust and come to and more anonymous methods of dealing with emotionally fragile problems and things like that.
I’d also like to see more scientific policing. Using the latest data in psychology and sociology to cut down on crimes. I rmemeber my teacher in Criminal justice who was a cop once talking about this, how some departments tried new ideas to find out what worked and some were just dinosaurs that didn’t really seem to care about new ideas.
Oddly enough, my complaints seem to be diametrically opposite from the rest of the thread.
I don’t dislike cops at all - I just wish they’d do a better job. My problem is that over the past few year, the police here has diverted so much energy to stopping suicide bombers that they’ve started to neglect actual law enforcement, especially when it comes to property crimes such as burglary and auto theft. That, coupled with a relaxed, live-and-let live, it’s-no-big-deal, can’t-we-all-just-talk-this-over Levantine attitude towards disputes, makes them prone to overlook too many vioations that don’t involve anyone actually getting hurt. Also, the higher level of the police establishment seem much too cozy with organized crime and with politicians.
More cops, more budget, a kick in their ass to get them working, and the installment of a “squarer,” less forgiving attitude. Plus a major stable cleaning in the higher echelons.
All cops here are national cops, and they tend to think too big. The country needs local police forces like in the U.S.
I wish they’d pay more attention to law and order, and not just to security.
a) I don’t like being around people who are armed when I’m not. It makes me nervous. Give me a gun and then we’ll talk as equals, or have them keep their gun in the car and everything will be fine. If you want to make it so that I can only carry a gun if I have the same training, then fine. Everyone is equal. The assumption that I, Joe Public, can’t be just as responsible, or irresponsible, as a cop is insulting.
b) personal video cameras for every cop. Record everything. Have an independant board do random reviews (note: I’m all for mouthy people (abusive language vs. freedom of speech) getting a smack down if they don’t show respect. So some form of ‘don’t be an asshole’ law should be passed and allowed to be enforced’). You got to give the cops something to use in dealing with the idiots they have to come in contact with on a daily basis.
e) Alberta, Canada.
A)They seem ineffective when it comes to actual problems (gangs, auto thefts, etc), and use their power improperly. Here, recent occurances include making and wearing t-shirts with the phrase ‘No Rats’, and the ‘Overtime Bar Incident’, where a big surveillance operation was organized to try to nab a newspaper reporter critical of police. (He took a cab home).
Plus the sense of entitlement, as remarked upon in this thread.
B) I like Uzi’s idea. Record everything, make it public upon request by those involved.
Done with the national police corps (there’s 2 different ones) in Spain. The idea is to avoid both burnout and corruption.
Some areas have “regional” police corps which also get rotated, shuffled and shaken, for the same reason.
As for the locals, many of them are related to Danish and Japanese cops.
I’ve had bad experiences with cops/border officers in the US, mostly - of course like I mentioned my expectations for Spanish “locals” aren’t particularly high. Like those Feds who came into the house where I rented a room and scared the beejesus out of the owner, a 5’1", 64yo jamaica-born citizen with enough medical problems to keep QtM entertained for a few hours; they were just going there to ask some background questions on a guy who used to live there and had got a high level government job, but behaved as if they thought she was stashing colombian snow in the freezer. Spanish Nationals tend to be bullies but nowhere near as bad.
Training, training, training: it’s not just about the knowledge, attitude goes with it too. Give them the active message that You Are Not John Wayne’s Bad-ass Brother. Duke could loom, but he also said “ma’am” and would never have loomed over a little old lady when all he wanted was to know if one of her old boarders may have used drugs.
No tolerance for corruption. Lots of Nationals think the law applies to “everybody 'cept me” - back to training, training, training.
The rotation helps too.
I wouldn’t remove them.
I’m ok with law and order so long as the system includes means for laws to be changed and updated.
Navarra, northern Spain. Currently working in the Basque Country (Euzkadi), northern Spain.
I think a good part of the issue with the police is the one thing that has changed from the 1950s until today. With the introduction of the automobile enmasse, the job of the policeman has changed in large part from enforcer of the laws to revenue generating agent. Traffic laws were designed to be broken, and thus, we ‘are all guilty’. The police officer has a motive to bother any person, for it generates revenue for his department and for his town or city.
Before, his job was to preserve, protect, and defend. Now, the profit motive has been added, and it has severely changed the citizen’s perspective, as it can be legitimately considered that he exists to prey on us all, from parking violations to speeding tickets. If you see him on his daily patrol, you know that at whim he can pull you over and cost you money and time… even if you are stalwart and upright.
I don’t dislike the police myself, but, somewhere I heard this very final solution:
No cops, no public police force. Every man, woman and child for themselves. Hire protection if you can’t protect yourself, and if you can’t afford to hire it, well, I never got a direct answer from the fellow but I got the distinct impression he didn’t feel those people deserved protection anyway. :dubious:
A) The law enforcement personnel that I dislike are arrogant and overly self-important. They believe that their profession entitles them to special privileges that allow them to act around and above current laws and regulations at all times. I am also disgusted with the lack of neutrality after a cop shoots an unarmed person. There is nothing wrong with innocent until proven guilty but lets face it, cops are not automatically correct every time they draw a gun.
B) The police department in my town takes an interesting approach to handling house parties and other “teen incidents.” They always send former and current DARE officers and other personnel who work closely with young people (i.e. officers who provide security for the schools and for school events). This increases the likelihood that the officer called to the scene is already familiar with the people that they are addressing. In the end, the incidents are handled quickly and calmly with little agitation on either side. Unfortunately, the township police who patrol the highways through my town tend to be of the arrogant and easily agitated breed.
I would like to see more focus on enhancing communication and conflict resolution skills. Unless someone is being a jerk, the attitude is completely unnecessary.