Like someone said upthread, all changes break someone’s workflow - we can’t very well expect Microsoft’s products never to change, or else MS would very quickly be out of business.
IMO, the Office ribbon was a far more jarring example of a forced change of method - and I passionately hated this for more than a year, but looking back, I now wonder what all the fuss was about.
It appears that you don’t configure things the way you want, but instead are at the mercy of the OS default. And because the Win8 default is better, you like it way more. Which is fine for you, but the strength of the earlier Windows versions is flexible customization.
For example, the XP start menu is pretty much maximally customizable. You can literally put together any hierarchical system you like and it just works. What configuration did you go with? As you describe…
Ugh, no wonder you like Win8 better. What a nightmare.
For me, still clinging to XP but looking to upgrade before next Spring when official XP support is terminated, here’s how my start menu works:
Along the left I have 4 “apps” pinned, because that’s how much room I had after I customized the start menu how I liked it. Those 4 “apps” aren’t really my productivity apps, just fluff pieces I like fewer clicks to get to:
Excel
Chess Openings (an app I wrote myself)
Volume Control (because I don’t like this cluttering up my systray)
Paint (Mainly for pasting screenshots)
The meat of what I use the computer for is via All Programs. All Programs opens to a list of “categories” of applications I use. Each category has 1 icon per program; none of that extraneous garbage that installers love to add. Categories include:
“Media” (video & sound players & editors, CD/DVD burners, etc…)
“Documents” (essentially Microsoft Office plus notepad)
“Internet” (browsers, torrent, peerblock, hosts files, etc…)
You get the idea. I have 10 such categories, and each category has a half dozen to a dozen items in it, for a total of around 70 icons within easy “no-hunting” access. There is an 11th option “All Programs” I put at the top of the list that is where I move all the standard installation start menu folders. This is where your unruly 3 columns that scroll go, though again I have those organized by category so it’s not too unwieldy. But I never, ever go to this section; it’s merely there for reference in the once-a-year instance I need something esoteric.
My desktop has exactly one icon on it, the recycle bin. My start menu is tiny and incredibly handy. I fear that Windows 8 simply won’t be able to manage this feat.
Here is my normal desktop (The background randomizes every login)
Here are a couple samples of my start menu usage. One is the oft-discussed calculator. Another is where I go to burn videos onto a DVD for playing in a DVD player.
Here’s where I go to customize my start menu, shown in full screen to give a sense of how I use it “in the wild.” (I blanked out user account names.)
One thing that would annoy me greatly would be to have anything on my desktop background other than the pretty pictures I’ve accumulated over the years. I have around 10-20 each for spring, summer, fall and winter, and on startup a random one is chosen based on the day of the year. (This is done via a program I wrote.)
Really, what I’m getting at is that the Start Menu has a ton of power and efficiency that you apparently never harnessed, so I get why you think the new interface is so good. For someone like me, who has a strong “nesting” urge with my computer like a pregnant woman does with a nursery, it seems like a huge step backward.
Maybe you’re right - I’ve never really had the patience to spend time organising things into little cubby-holes - my use of software is generally very broad and fluid - I try out lots of different stuff in many different categories - and I typically want to get on the learning curve of using something as soon as I have it - I never seem to get back to putting it away in its rightful place in some hierarchical structure (or indeed, having a structure in which to put it)
So yes, it suits me really well not to worry about where my stuff is, but knowing I can find it in a jiffy regardless.
That’s a very general statement that doesn’t actually say anything about the specifics of what we are discussing. I could say that about any change to any software.
For desktop users, why do you think MS “needed” to perform all of the work they did to remove the Start menu and it’s functionality?
The ribbon change was logical but created pain because they didn’t do it 20 years ago.
Removing the Start menu is not in this same category of logic.
Alternating between mouse and keyboard is the worst kind of navigation possible - that’s why most UI’s avoid it, generally.
I’ve been designing and developing software for 30 years, part of that is working with users regarding what is easy vs cumbersome…alternating between the mouse and the keyboard for navigation is generally considered more cumbersome.
Moving your hand from the mouse to participate in a keyboard action, and then moving the hand back to the mouse to continue navigation is ridiculously cumbersome and if you think otherwise, then great, go write some software and see how well it is received.
Even just using one hand on the keyboard and one hand on the mouse is still more cumbersome for 99% of users, you may like it, but that doesn’t mean it’s intuitive, easy to remember and efficient.
If you are talking about using the mouse to navigate and then using the keyboard to complete some navigation before entering some data, it’s still more cumbersome due to multiple modes of navigation, memory of which special keyboard shortcuts are valid depending on the context, etc. etc. etc.
Most UIs apart from Windows, Office, and about every game made for PC? We are not talking about alternating between mouse and keyboard, but using both together. It’s more efficient, and allows for a vastly greater range of input that either on it’s own would, and effectively allows you to do two things at once, using mouse and keyboard shortcut, so is also faster.
That people, including you, so it seems, are too lazy or stupid to learn it doesn’t change any of this. Seriously, every time you have to cut and paste text, for example, are you forever right clicking and hunting through menus? By the time you’ve searched for “cut” in the menu, I’ve cut, moved the mouse, and pasted. That’s just a tiny example of where it’s unarguably better.
As for this, the only functionality removed is the list of recent programs. Whilst it’s not exactly necessary to remove it, keeping it would take up space that you could instead use to access your most used programs - the ones you choose - at a single click.
I started a thread when the Surface was first announced and I declared it to be mundane and pointless. I stand by that. And Windows 8 can get off my lawn. I’d rather run Vista (which I actually do like but that’s another story).
However, I think Microsoft is actually doing something remarkable with Windows 8. They are, for once in their lives, ahead of the curve on this one. Follow along if you will.
Microsoft has foreseen a day when most people will consume internet content on a device that is not a desktop computer. Indeed, one could even say that that day has already come. These devices are universally touch-screen enabled. They do not feature a “start menu” as such. They also tend to use a strict method of application control that prevents them from suffering the same issues a typical Windows PC might encounter such as malware and viruses.
One can easily imagine why MS would be unhappy that 99% of these devices are running some variant of Linux or iOS. Windows 8 would seem to be the response. Now to me, I find Windows 8 to be a particularly odious beta test but at the same time, a harbinger of what is to come. People aren’t going to abandon their smartphones so they can go back to a tower, keyboard and mouse setup. Furthermore, the rigid app model allows advertisements to be served up in such a way that they cannot be blocked like they can on a PC. I would go so far as to say many apps are simply advertisements that masquerade as useful programs. The future of money making via internet content is ad serving. Any jerkweed out there can make an ad blocker for IE or Firefox or Chrome. But is there a willing jerkweed who will make an ad blocker for Second Municipal Bank of Podunk’s Windows 8 app?
I have sampled a Microsoft Surface briefly and found two important things: first, the touchscreen controls turn from liability to asset on an actual touchscreen device. Second, there is something viscerally satisfying about being able to boss the computer around with my hands.
Windows 8 is a turd, and as a famous philosopher once said, you can’t polish a turd. But Microsoft is trying as hard as they have ever tried to make sure they will not be behind the times as our consumption methods change.
Honestly, I have no idea. Best guess: to nudge people now in the direction of doing things differently - that is, in a way they may be predicting will be commonplace and acceptable in future.
Dell Precision M6700 laptop ships with Windows 7.
Totally understandable.
I would hope that it’s equally understandable that a person like me who rather enjoys setting up those cubby-holes would:
a) take issue with the characterization that the Start Menu is, in and of itself, inefficient compared to physically typing out the name of a program. (Ugh; I would never do that.)
b) be very annoyed at removing the cubby-hole feature itself.
As I said before, I have easy and efficient access to around 70 different applications, all while leaving my desktop pristine and untouched by clutter so that my pretty backgrounds are on full display. I’ve used this setup ever since I moved to Windows 95 back in 1997. That’s 16 years worth of “hell no I’m not changing because Joe Sixpack got a smartphone.”
What’s the problem with arranging those applications in groups on the Start screen? On my (fairly low-res) screen, I can get 36 programs on one screen, so to fit all yours on you’d have to scroll across once - which, to my mind, is no more work than going through nested menus.
Or, you could install a start menu replacement - Classic Shell can imitate the XP start menu, if you want to keep that.
Ahead of the curve?
They are fighting to stay relevant and started a few years late.
The shift to non-MS tablets for average consumer is on a rapid pace to match pc shipments.
1Q 2013:
PC’s=76.3 million
Growth=-13.9%
Tablets=49.2 million
Growth=142.4%
It’s mainly an economy of space issue. I showed in my screenshots that my start menu is both very efficient and also incredibly small.
I will, of course, so it’s not a major deal. Just a misstep, IMO. I’m also not happy having to use a third party solution because it’s almost guaranteed to not be as nice.
As an example, switching from IE to Firefox left me with a far more annoying, less effective accelerator function. Much of my internet usage relies on accelerators, and the entire firefox experience is downgraded for me due to the 3rd party accelerator function being pretty crappy.
Agreed. Like I said - it’s just my turn to be comfortable at last.
And I guess if Win8 is a failure, it will be because Microsoft misjudged the ratio of users like you and like me, and mismeasured the strength of their convictions on these matters.
I’m using Classic Shell, mainly for the Boot To Desktop option, but as far as I can tell it emulates the start menus from XP, Vista and Win7 exactly. I may well switch to the start screen in 8.1, as the smaller icons look like they will make it more usable - if I understand it correctly, you could then fit all your 70 programs on one screen.
But then, I’ve always used plenty of third party programs in Windows. It seems to me the ability to customise it like that is a strength, not a weakness, because, as has been pointed out in this thread, people are very different in how they use their computers. Which isn’t to say that all third party products are good, or better than the Microsoft equivalent.
In that case I should be good to go, thanks much.
Well, as I said, I don’t want a single icon on my desktop, much less 70. But sounds like it’s a complete non-issue thanks to classic shell.
(And now I want some ice cream with Magic Shell.)
They’ll only appear when you activate the start screen, they’ll not be on your desktop all the time. But yes. Classic Shell means you can ignore it entirely. Here’s the link again.
Mmm, ice cream.
At the risk of reopening the argument, I wanted to link to this article: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users. It makes the same points I was attempting to make except in a more articulate manner.
Funny, I don’t see anything there about Calculator being hard to find. 