Why would climate change be a hoax?

My guesses

  1. There are people like that guy in the pit thread where he talks to himself who says its a hoax because he works for the oil companies.

  2. There’s a lot of conservatives that think this is a liberal idea and are reflexively opposed to it because of that.

  3. There are people who are probably mad that others smarter than they are are telling them they need to do something, and so jealousy and anger makes them denied climate change.

So people who have a financial stake, ideological stake, or emotional stake in the debate tend to be ones I see on TV loudly trying to refute the rock solid evidence. And they are almost never not angry about it, so you know this isn’t an intellectual thing

There’s this thing called “winter”. Perhaps you’ve heard of it?

It’s winter in the southern hemisphere.

They think it’s a socialist plot. The problem is so large the governments will have to seize factories and directly control the economy for our own good. A new boogeyman is needed to justify this, just like 9/11 justified massive expansions of the security state.

America and Western Europe, OK, sure, why not? But I don’t know why India and China would give a shit about it. If GW is false it’s because scientists are wrong, not because they made it up. Government plans for secret take overs would be a separate issue. Just like there really are terrorists who want to blow up airplanes.

I’d rather have mine on the cover of Rolling Stone. I’d even buy 5 copies for my mother!

Yes, we definitely need yet another thread about this! I’m sure I’d feel differently if I got a dollar for every one. :smiley:

Oh, well …

Was it really? How interesting. Cite? Because back in the 1970s we actually understood relatively little about climatic trends. So little that in 1975 the National Research Council of the National Academy of Sciences issued a report called Understanding Climatic Change: A Program for Action which said that the science at that point “didn’t even know the right questions to ask” and recommended large-scale programs in climate research which were subsequently started and are giving us the definitive answers about climate change that we have today. The “ice age” story mostly comes from a Newsweek cover story (circa 1975, I think) based on groundless speculation that was a classic example of bad journalism.

Actually no, the climate change assessment is brought to you by a large group of people we call “scientists”.

I’ve heard of it! :smiley: Another contributing factor is that with the loss of as much as several hundred gigatons a year from the ongoing melt of the Antarctic ice sheet, there is substantial freshwater outflow into the surrounding ocean that may be contributing to larger than normal growth of seasonal winter sea ice.

Time for a classic debunking:

Of course if this is a conspiracy this is a weird one, if that was the case then the so called “climate gate” would had show the climate scientists on the hoax when talking to each other. The investigation of the stolen e-mails showed the opposite as science writer Peter Hadfield reported.


It is old news, again and again.

Worse than that, it’s getting DARK here in Pittsburgh! OMG the sun is going out!

Naah, it’s always dark & gloomy and post-apocalyptic in Pittsburgh. With dripping water.

It just *seems *darker to you since your eyes are getting tired after being awake so long.

I hear it’s coming.

Do not jest! Such is the firm grasp of science by climate change denialists that they have serious and concerning questions about where the sun goes at night, and must have a good deal of understandable anxiety that it might not come back. And don’t even get them started on advanced concepts like winter and summer, although most of them quite like winter, considering the snow in their back yards as irrefutable evidence that global warming is a hoax, and that climate scientists are all in the pay of “Big Al”. Also, CO2 is plant food, dontcha know.

Seconded. I don’t know the individual posters enough to know if they’re being ironic or if they’re actually explaining the (perceived) conspiracy. Makes the whole thing less entertaining.

Lil’ Neville (who will be 3 in August) told me the other day that it goes “in the bushes”. If she has an opinion on climate change, she hasn’t told me what it is yet. Maybe she thinks it is part of the conspiracy to make her eat yucky food, make her go to bed when she’s not tired, and keep her from having fun in the bathtub by arbitrarily and capriciously saying she can’t pour water on the floor.

Since, apparently, you don’t need actual sceptics in this thread, I’ll leave you to carry on with the circle-jerk.

You know the truth, but the Illuminati will be out to get you if you divulge it?

If you would like to debate the topic, feel free to do so.

If you want to engage in vulgar threadshitting, take it to The BBQ Pit.

[ /Moderating ]

I have enough problems keeping the treasure of Oak Island a secret from the Trilateral Commision, not to say that hiding all those Bigfoots living in my apartment is a real nightmare. Don’t even get me started on having Freemasons, Cathars, and Templars trying to steal the Holy Grail.

BTW, I don’t beleive basic CC theory is a hoax.

Sorry.

Lil’ Neville sounds like a perfect sweetheart, and might in her infancy enjoy tossing snowballs with this guy, an actual adult and actually elected senator from Oklahoma whose mental age is about 2½ and hasn’t changed in about 80 years.

I don’t believe for a second that climate change is a ‘hoax’ or a conspiracy.

However, institutional bias is rampant in science, and Climate Change is the most politicized scientific subject I’ve ever seen, so it would be easy to believe that there is bias embedded in the literature.

If you don’t think biased results happen, I suggest you read the history of the Millikan Oil Drop experiment. Millikan got the numbers wrong in his published paper. That happens once in a while, and his conclusion was still correct. So that’s not the scandal. The scandal is that when people replicated the experiment, their published results would closely align with his, but perhaps skewed just slightly towards the correct number. Then the next attempt at replication would be just a bit closer to the correct number. It took a long time for the true numbers to be published.

How come? Because Millikan was a famous scientist with a reputation. When people tried to replicate his results, they started with the assumption that his numbers were correct. So when their own experiments returned a different result, they’d assume something was wrong with their setup, and tinker around until they got a number closer to Millikan’s. Then that result would get submitted, and the reviewers wouldn’t look too closely at the results because they were close to Millikan’s so they were ‘obviously’ correct.

Once a new result was published that confirmed Millikan’s numbers, that would make a different result even more suspect, which biased the research further.

Bias in academia isn’t just about grant money. It’s also about reputation, pleasing tenure review boards, not having a target painted on your back, etc.

You can imagine that in an environment where the ‘denier’ label is a career-killer, results that go against the ‘consensus’ probably result in 10 times the scrutiny as results that agree with the consensus. You can also imagine that someone looking for tenure or a promotion is going to want to find results that confirm the ‘accepted’ models.

One of the problems today in all sciences and not just global warming is that data mining is much easier than it used to be, and computer models and simulations allow the rapid testing of many different hypotheses.

Consider two published results of a statistical analysis - both of them show a very strong correlation between a cause and an effect. However, imagine that the first one started out with a certain hypothesis, but couldn’t find confirmation in the data. So the scientists tried another hypothesis, then another, then another, until they finally hit something that shows a strong correlation. So they publish that, and don’t mention all the misses or how much tweaking of the data they had to do before finding that correlation.

The other paper started out as a single hypothesis, then the data was inspected and the correlation found.

Which of those papers do you think has a stronger chance of being right?

Now imagine an environment where the ‘wrong’ answer will end your career if it goes in one direction, but be unnoticed or beneficial if the error goes in the other? What are you likely to do if you get a ‘wrong’ answer? Well, if it’s an answer that goes against the consensus, you may assume that your data was bad, or your experiment was set up wrong, or that your hypothesis just needs a bit of tweaking. But if the wrong answer lands in the ‘consensus’ region, you just say “Jackpot!” and publish.

Even if the individual scientist is completely scrupulous, that kind of bias can twist results. And if the paper has to go through internal faculty review, there’s a good chance that the same kind of bias will cause the paper to be rejected for publication or accepted depending on which way the error goes. Thus, bad results that amplify the consensus get published, while bad results that would work against the consensus are subjected to enough scrutiny that they are caught. Or maybe even GOOD results that go against the consensus fail to be published because one of the gatekeepers in the mix decides that it ‘must’ be wrong, or even that he doesn’t need the headache of publishing a ‘denier’ paper. Or maybe even that he thinks that global warming is real and critical to mankind, so publishing papers that will be used as weapons by ‘deniers’ isn’t helpful, even if they are correct.

That’s exactly what happened with Millikan, and the only bias there was the reputation of one man. The bias pressure on climate science is massive compared to that. It can’t help but affect the quality of the research. The question is how big an effect would it be, and whether it’s big enough to change the basic conclusions.

With Millikan, the scientific community eventually converged on the right answer because it was an objective fact that could not be avoided forever. But climate science deals in time frames of decades to hundreds of years, and deals with predictions of complex adaptive systems, of which there can be no ‘proof’ one way or the other. That means there does not have to be a reason for the results to converge on anything close to the same numbers - it’s all interpretation and probabilities. So biased or otherwise incorrect results could persist and even be amplified if they came from an authoritative source.