The thing I noticed in the highlighted bit is that it called the US an “empire”, which would seem to be rather blatantly casting the discussion in terms of America’s weight and reach on the international playing field.
This was claimed up thread. What evidence do you have that the US is taking a massive hit wrt international relations? We have taken something of a hit wrt China, but our relations with them have been rocky. In practical terms, how has our relations with Europe actually changed? What about our Asian partners? Has that changed? Australia? Canada? I’m not seeing any sort of practical, real world change to be honest. Several world leaders have TALKED about pivoting to other partners and away from the US, but where is the evidence they actually are doing it? Are the Europeans building up their own military in anticipation of going it alone, without the US? How about Japan? South Korea? Are they talking about snuggling up to the other up and coming superpower, China? Doesn’t seem likely, though some European countries do seem to be toying with the idea (Italy and Greece spring to mind).
It honestly does seem like an incredible claim to me as I don’t see evidence of it actually happening…and this is WITH this orange haired idiot in charge. But, even with that, I don’t see countries taking real, practical and visible steps away from the US and towards…something else. But if you have some evidence of this happening, I’m all ears.
Yes, this is a more accurate assessment of what I wrote.
Additionally, I believe we’re right on the cusp of an age where autocrats help each other over their own national interest. Trump has basically written love letters to every autocrat in existence. He’s jealous of them. He wants his own tin pot dictatorship complete with military parades. He lavishes praises on autocrats and frequently insults democratic allies.
The Republicans have voted not just to not beef up our election security, but to defund it and make us even more vulnerable to election interference. They are inviting foreign powers to interfere in our elections in their favor. This is not happenstance. This is part of their strategy to deal with changing demographics in this country not working in their favor. In return, the US will likely help autocrats around the world win their elections too.
I suspect we will see an era of increasing trans-national autocrats working in each other’s best interest regardless of their own national interest. They look to their own power and wealth first, and they recognize that other powerful people are available to a quid-pro-quo agreement.
Since Trump has conclusively proven that corruption and acting to enrich and empower yourself even at the cost of national interest is something that not only goes unpunished but paradoxically makes people love you even harder, this is the moment where it opens the flood gates for autocrats or potential autocrats the world around to join in on it.
We’re in the nascent stage where cyberwarfare and foreign propoganda influencing elections in powerful, democratic countries is being attempted at a large and effective scale. Our response to this should’ve been to stamp it out, to attack it as much as we could, but instead we’ve just sort of let it slide. No one is really doing anything. There’s a lot of talk about how democrats are outraged and what not, but what are they actually doing?
Autocrats go unpunished for what is probably the greatest case of espionage and propaganda warfare to influence the election of a major democratic country. This is just encouragement for more of the same.
We’re in for an explosion of autocrats scratching each other’s backs the world around. This will be looked back upon as a turning point for the validity of elections and the shift where even shitty autocrats would still care about their own national interest.
Are you claiming that “Approval” and “doing a fine job” are equivalent and that “something like” means “exactly”? That doesn’t bode well for the accuracy of your communication abilities.
I’m not particularly worried about our standing with western Europe. I remember hearing similar alarmism during the administration of GWB. Leftist European countries like leftist American presidents and dislike conservatives / Republicans. Oh well, IDGAF.
If you don’t mind a claim being off by 8 points, we could just as accurately say: “something like” 51% of the population think he’s doing a fine job.
<sarcasm> Nobody could possibly object to that sort of a characterization, could they? </sarcasm>
Whether you, personally, are particularly worried about it or not isn’t particularly relevant. You see, it’s not about you.
Sure. What I was attempting to illustrate is that EU opinions of America were similarly low during the Bush administration, and we didn’t suffer any particularly lasting harm as a result. Just like it doesn’t matter what I think about it, it doesn’t matter what France or Germany think about it.
This…doesn’t really respond to anything I said. I mean, I recall mentioning things like agreements and trade - things at the government level, not popular opinion.
And yeah, conservatives have never really cared that their policies are widely despised by first-world democratic populations. That’s not really here or there.
So what’s your concern? That we pulled out of the Paris Climate Agreement? Or that we’re not trading enough with other countries (which appears to not be a concern)?
Well, I AM concerned about our current “Burn the world down for fun and momentary profit” approach to the environment, and I have also heard some disturbing things about how tariffs are not, in fact, an all-purpose tool leading to guaranteed trade supremacy. But mostly I’m vaguely smelling bridges burning in the distance and wondering what that means for us in the future.
I don’t follow international politics well enough to predict specific outcomes, but I am awake enough to be supremely unimpressed by people who claim that being a brain-damaged bull in the international china shop cannot possibly have any negative consequences ever, because reasons.
Bush didn’t shit on NATO or start rearranging the geopolitical picture out of pique. Bush didn’t leave soybean crops rotting in the field as a result of mistakenly believing he knew better either. The comparison is not valid.
So well said Senor Beef. All because of the inability of a large faction of the USA that refuses to think, and would prefer to blame others for their inability to make a better life for themselves. Racists mostly, lazy bums the rest of them.
I agree COMPLETELY to help people that are in need. But the stupid fucks that voted for Trump are getting just what they deserve. It’s really quite sad.
So, it’s a feeling on your part, not backed up by data? Well, that’s fine. It’s like the feeling many seem to have that things are so much worse today than in the past. They FEEL it’s so, so therefore it is.
I watched an interesting video (which I won’t bother linking to) the other day that was talking about the Build A Bear Group (or maybe it was the Bilderberg Group). Basically, it was a debunking video of the CT surrounding it. But one guy said something that struck me. Basically, he said that there isn’t any big conspiracy…but that what the group actually does is coordinate between the US and Europe. Then he pointed out something interesting…in practical terms, what actually has changed wrt US foreign policy (or European) from Bush I to today? He went down a long list…and, really, the answer was ‘not much’. I was skeptical…I mean, we went from Bush I to Clinton, to Bush II to Obama and now to Trump…surly EVERYTHING changed. But the reality is, not much has. Oh, there have been surface things. Politicians yelling or making a big stink about this or that. The US has had a snit with the EU over trade (which has now been mostly resolved, and note didn’t last or impact either nearly the same as the China trade war), and the US and NATO over funding (which many NATO countries increased slightly but overall was just a shrug and a meh) but other than that? Not much. Same goes for the US relations with Japan, South Korea, Australia (despite the public snit between leaders), Canada (same) or any of the other core US allies. About the only place I could point to and say our relations have noticeably deteriorated is…Turkey. And there are other forces at work on that one and it’s complicated…more complicated than Trump is bad and folks don’t like us because of it. Other than that I can’t think of any actual evidence of core things moving our allies from us or us from our allies. This DESPITE the fact that Trump is an idiot and doesn’t understand any of this stuff…and doesn’t want too. But the thing is, Trump isn’t king and the Republicans can’t just do everything because under the surface are the folks who really do the work…and they will still be there, doing it, when we shake the dust from this idiot from our collective boots. And their counter parts are in every one of our allies, despite the surface governments, and those relations havent’ changed just because we have an orange haired idiot at the helm, or because of either party.
There are around four hundred million people in Western Europe. Are you really that confident that you know better than four hundred million people?
Of course he does. That’s actually not really controversial. Next question?
And a large percentage of them dislike the US? Not dislike Trump (THAT I would believe) but dislike the US? Want their countries to stop doing business with the US? Maybe want their countries to move away from the US politically? :dubious: I’ve seen the PEW polls…and, yeah, the US is polling worse under Trump than under Obama. But we aren’t polling worse than under Bush II. And most of those polls? We are talking a few hundred people, maybe a thousand responders. It’s also unclear, to me, if they are mainly saying they are angry with Trump or with the US, or if they are just angry. It reminds me of how France was polling in the US after they didn’t back us in Bush II’s war in Iraq. All that stupid ass Freedom Fries! horseshit.
Sorry, but, again, I’m not seeing indications of real, substantial movement of any of our allies away from us nor towards each other or towards the other world superpower, China. I don’t see the EU circling the wagons as they would if they were REALLY planning to go it alone and cut the US out or even start pulling away from us and do their own thing. I think right now it’s all they can do to keep themselves from flying apart, let alone that they are wanting to become unified or stronger internally. What I DO see is China chipping away at them…and I think they see that as well. Assuming that’s the case, do you really think that they or any of our other allies are willing to toss the baby out with the bath water over…Trump? 
The United States can probably recover, but at the moment they look like Britain in the final years of the Empire - they’re not only losing their international standing, they seem eager to throw it away.
Pretty much spot on, Waldo.
Over four thousand American troops died in Iraq. I think those people had value. You apparently don’t.