Belief, or the lack thereof, defines reality? Piffle, I say. The world is what it is, and isnt what it isnt, and this is not a matter of subjectivity or thinking that something must be true because we would like it to be so: I may believe that I am Marie of Rumania or that God is a postbox - that says more about me than the nature of the world. You are correct in thinking that you will never be able to convince me about the efficacy of prayer or magic, apart a from as a mere psychological placebo: that says less about the subjectivity of reality than it does about my willingness to face facts, nasty sharp edges and pieces to break off and swallow notwithstanding.
Protestant Spells - V, VS
Catholic Spells - V, VS, VSM, S, SM
Muslim Spells - VS
**Razor wrote:
Not all prayer uses props. There are no props at all in Islamic prayer, only words and actions.
And Muslims don’t bend anything to their will or bend to anything’s will except the will of God.**
Good points, but please remember, the OP was specifically addressing Wicca and witchcraft, not all religious prayer.
For whatever reasons, the J/C/I God has a problem with magic that’s not part of His rituals and rites. Try reading Magic, Science, Religion and the Scope of Rationality by Stanley Tambiah for an interesting treatment of this.
**Jomo Mojo wrote:
Speaking of which, what do people think about Idries Shah’s claim that Wicca is partly derived from Islam?
According to his book The Sufis, the origin of Wicca, centuries ago, is traced back to the ‘Anazah tribe of Arabia. (The same tribe that gave rise to the Saudi clan, the present Wahhabi rulers of Saudi Arabia. Talk about bizarre juxtapositions!) The word athame (Wiccan ritual dagger) comes from Arabic al-dami ‘the bloody one’. **
Interesting. Could I see a cite for this?
Drawing Down the Moon (Margot Adler, 1986) and Triumph of the Moon (Ronald Hutton, 1998) both great books on the history of Wicca make no mention of this connection. I’d like to hear more about it.
**tetsusaru wrote:
The question which springs to mind {and this goes for Christians as well} is, is there any empirical evidence that all of this hocus pocus {or hoc est corpus} actually does anything? I`m a 35 year old white male resistentialist, for the record. **
Nope, sorry. I don’t have anything but my own personal experience in the matter. I know, that doesn’t stand up to your tests.
Let’s turn the question around for a moment, tho. I’m not trying to convince you of the efficacy of magic, etc. I’m simply replying to a question regarding what my beliefs are, in comparison to Christian prayer. If you choose to not believe me, that’s fine. I’m not requiring you to.
::dies laughing::
Succinct, to the point, and correct. :D.