Poser Wiccans piss me off

The BBQ Pit
1

As I said in the Jack Chick thread, this is something that pisses me off vastly. People who read one book and put a pentagram around their neck, then BAM! Instant Witch. Never mind that you haven’t been in the forest for three years, and you’d rather go to the fucking mall.

Listen, stupid ignorant fucks! You are ruining the religion you profess to be a part of with the way you go around spouting about you Witchiness, and then not bothering to say, KNOW anything about it. Instead you thought it looked cool when you saw “The Craft” and decided to sign up, assuming that it was a 100% accurate portrayal of how Magick works. :rolleyes:

Wicca is a sacred path that one has to walk. IMHO, it doesn’t work like Christianity, where you just have to think it and then you are a full-fledged member. You have to spend time in the quiet places on this Earth, meditating, praying, communing with Spirit. It takes some work to become a real practicing Wiccan. Spellcraft is not like baking cookies where you throw shit together according to instructions and it comes out, there has to be a deep spiritual force flowing through you, between you and Spirit, you have to work with divine energies. You, you vacant bitch cannot grasp that. Nope, you read most of “Teen Witch” until you got bored, and figured that was about enough training for you.

It pisses me off that I am lumped in a group with you people. I study, I work. I have sacred places that I go to to perform my rites, and I commune. I go to the woods to talk to the God and Goddess. I pray, I offer. You, on the other hand, think it’s cool if other people believe you’re a witch. Fucking RELIGIOUS POSERS??? How did this happen? Shit! Those of you who give the actual followers a bad name, FUCK YOU, ok? Best case, you’re a fucking idiot who sullies the name of a religion you wish you were part of, but don’t have enough interest to pursue. Worst case, you’re fucking around with powers you don’t have the intelligence, training or responsibility to use. Neither of those is good.

LC

2

I’m not a Christian but I do take opposition to this quote:

That’s poorly worded and I am sure you are going to piss off a lot of Christians that feel that the work they did to become Christian is not simply “thinking about it.”

Baaaaad.

Thank God I am just a theist and don’t put my spirituality into any “group” sure makes my life easier.

3

Lucki, reading the Bible through several times and thinking for probably years’ worth of time on how to interpret it and questioning my beliefs and doubting my God and myself and everything I’ve ever stood for was just a piece of cake, believe me. :rolleyes:

That said, I understand where you’re coming from. I just didn’t like the attitude you took towards Christianity.

4

Why not? There are religious posers in anything.

5

Uhh…

In Lucki’s defence, I have heard people say, on these very boards, that if you believe Jesus was the Son of G-d, then you are Christian. No ifs, ands or buts.

But anyway! As part of a group of friends that has several Wiccans in it, I hear this a lot. Some of my friends denouncing others, even. I understand your opposition (and annoyance) to people claiming to be a follower just 'cause it’s cool, but I do think it’s kinda arrogant to assume you know better than anyone else who’s Wiccan. As you said yourself, it’s a pretty personal thing.

That said, I’m definitely not Wiccan, but I do like the religion a lot.

6

I originally asked if anyone thought Wicca was sort of becoming “trendy”…I’ve noticed people saying, “Oh cool, what spells do you do?”

It’s like they watch Buffy and now think that Wicca is soooo like, totally kewlies!

7

LaurAnge said:

Okay then those are the people that have little understanding of what religion or being spiritual is about (not trying to highjack, honest) but it takes more than to simply believe in anything so abstract, Christianity is not that different. I have seen family members who are full fledged Christians go through hell on Earth to get where they are in their belief system.

I think this idea that it takes more than believing in anything spiritual to make it real, be that Christianity, Wiccan, Bhuddism, etc…if Lucki had gone along that track I wouldn’t have said anything.

Being spritual, now matter your religious or non-religious beliefs takes more than acceptance at face value. It means looking to your soul to know that what you think you believe is actually what you believe. If that follows ritual, then so be it but in any spiritual awakening there can’t be just an implied acceptance, self work follows. Spirituality of any kinds makes you understand your human state and transends that which is materialistic.

8

“Hey, man, I’m cool! I’m a Druid Wiccan! See this Pentagram? This means that I’m a member of a cool pagan religious organization! Huh-huh!”

(sound of lenin smacking stupid poser in the face with a 2 x 4)

Thanks for posting this, Lucki. For some reason, I keep seeing more and more people who follow this same trend. I myself don’t know much about Druidism and Wiccanism and other “COOL PAGANISM CULTS! WOWOWWOWOW!” but I’ve decided to start learning so I can stop these morons in their tracks.

(I’m a Freemason, meself, so I feel no need to publicly state any pride I have with being a pagan)

On a similiar note, when will people learn the difference between a pagan religion and a cult?

9

Wow, I guess Wicca really has arrived in the mainstream! What has always been the least dogmatic religions, holding as one of it’s basic tennants that everyone is going to practice it in acordance with their own feelings and beliefs, now has someone railing against other who are “not Wiccan enough”! Ladies and Gentlemen, I present Lucki Chaarms, The Jack Chick of Wicca!
Do as ye will, as ye harm none, asshole.

10

techchick, I agree with you that there is a lot more to spirituality than a simple sentence.

But do you agree that if a person believes in Jesus, they are Christian?

(you know, hijack just doesn’t seem cute anymore)

11

I mostly asked because I see all these teenyboppers saying, “what spellz do u thynk r lyke kewlies?”

12

I totally agree!

These days, with anyone under 18 years of age, I just assume that they’re going to call themselves Wiccan because it’s the thing to be. Meanwhile, they know nothing of Wicca outside of what they’ve seen on The Craft or (worse) Practical Magic.

Unless you’re serious, don’t call yourself Wiccan. Say you have some interest in alternative religions, say you’re interested in learning more about Wiccan because it embraces some philosphies you can really relate to, but don’t say you’re Wiccan because you like Charmed and it pisses your mother off. You’re a joke, and you’re turning the religion into a joke.

Oh, I am not Wiccan. I just have no respect for people who pay lipservice to anything and think that it makes them cool or special.

13

I agree that comment about Christianity was poorly worded and sounded contemptuous of their faith. That is not how I meant it, I just meant that a basic tenet of Christianity is that you need only ask for salvation via Jesus and you have it and are a member. Naturally a great deal of growth can be achieved through the further exploration of Christianity.

I’m also not saying that I know better than anyone else who’s a Wiccan, I have Wiccan friends who I consider every bit as Wiccan as myself who pray only to a Goddess, which seems very off to my mind, but I recognize that it’s all part of the same Spirit.

I am claiming spiritual superiority to those who pretend to be a part of a religion that they are not, just because they think it makes them look cool. That is not ok with me, and it really grates on me. Real Wiccans of all stripes are usually good people, like any group there are those who aren’t. Fake Wiccans just make me angry at a core level. They defile the sacred and beautiful work that we do, and that is not ok with me.

Dave- I am not railing against Wiccans who are practicing according to their own feelings and beliefs. I am a firm believer that there is room for all kinds of beliefs within Wicca. I’m railing against Non-Wiccans who pretend like they are so that people think they’re cool, which BTW pretty much never works.

LC

14

So, tell me Lucki, Gardnerian Wiccan? Alexandrian Wiccan? ReWeaving or ReClaiming Wiccan? Which of these are you, and which is correct? Just so I know - wouldn’t want to offend when I refer to my Wiccan friends. Me, I’m an agnostic neo-shamanic neo-pagan with a healthy dose of cynicism thrown in, so I’m sure I don’t count.

That said, I have extremely mixed feelings about books such as Teen Witch. On the one hand, I think it’s good that Wiccanism/Paganism has entered the mainstream enough that such a book can be published. OTOH, I find it rather offensive and cheapening to the religion. (Of course, my roommate and I were discussing what you’d put in the “Teen Catholic” pack - a Catechism and a crucifix (does that need to be capitalized?)?)

15

I’d have to agree there…but poser Christians/Jews/Atheists/Muslims/what-have-you piss me off just as much.

That being said…I was/am Wiccan–I am very reluctant to identify myself as Wiccan, as my theological beliefs have evolved into a marginally more Christian form than most–and I know what Lucki is talking about.

Yeah, it gets annoying when someone doesn’t know everything right off the bat. But that doesn’t necesarily make them a Poser Wiccan. Maybe they’re just trying out that particular path. Let them try it out. If they find that it’s not for them, they’ll be gone soon enough. If they decide to stick with it, then they’ll learn. You really can’t lose.

However, those people who want to know how to curse their boyfriend/get a crapload of money for nothing/invoke demons…they get the brush off. If they’re lucky.

16

Having spent plenty o’ time in the thread that touched Lucki off, I’m inclined to be forgiving.

HOWEVER…
Lucki, there are a lot of Christains that knee-jerk over Wicca (in it’s various forms) and Paganism in general. Don’t be like them.
Take a little time and be a little more thoughtful in what you say, so that comments like this:

won’t come back to bite you in the butt.

I daresay that every person of faith starts with little understanding, and then grows into their faith as best they’re able. If you’re pissed at people who profess a faith for frivolous purposes, say so, but inaccurate or condescending references to other religions don’t belong in that particular rant.

17

Ugh, I am with you LaurAnge, I hate to highjack too but I think it’s pertainent in a way to the discussion:

Um no, not really. If a person claims to believe in something and they really do it at face value then it’s not true.

Just like the OP complaining about 'sposed Wiccans who don’t really practice the ways of being a Wiccan then in the same light, if a person claims to be Christian and says that Jesus is the son of God then that person needs to back it up with living in Christian ways. Same goes for any religion.

I am not poopooing the OP for nature of the post I am just not thrilled with using Christianity in the light as posted. It’s wrong. You can’t “claim” to be of any religion unless you do as your religion says, this does not put Christianity in the “you say it there for it must be true” way.

Of course then you run into interpretations of any religion which is beyond my scope because I am not religious.

18

Tee hee…

Sorry, it just strikes me as mildly amusing and ironic that someone named Angel of the Lord is borderline Wiccan.

Seriously, when I first saw you, I definitely had you pegged for a devout Christian.

19

Excuse me, but who the hell appointed you Most High Priest and Preserver of the Wiccan Orthodoxy?

If Wicca had an Orthodoxy, I would be Outside. Not looking in.

That which is truly holy and divine doesn’t need a Council of Elders or a gilded Holy Book to delineate, define, and defend it. Wisdom is as light and its source shines of its own accord, for those who look.

I like the revalorization of nature implicit in the observing of the seasons cycles, but more often than not an equinox or a solstice goes by and I don’t even notice.

I do not own a ceremonial wand, a chalice, a cauldron, or broom. (I do have a great cast iron frying pan, a good scrubby brush, some nice beer bottles coated in candle-melt, and a box of sewing needles, though, not to mention a combo torx / phillips head screwdriver perfect for working on my laptop).

I don’t offer up official prayers to Maiden, Crone, don’t even recall what you’d call the third, and don’t pray to any guys with goat feets and goat horns either. I do reconcile, to my own satisfaction, the underlying truths and understandings of atheists and god-believers. I do pray. I don’t call God “She” but I don’t call God “He” either.

You won’t catch me chanting “abracadabra” or speaking in eons-forgotten Celtic Druidic or Gaelic tongues to cast spells or conjure things, but I am here and I do bend the world in my passing; I have been known to cast aspersions with an incisive observation, or to dispel clouds with the power of my understanding. I weave in words, but the power lies not in the syllables any more than the wicker basket’s elegance comes from the weeds.

The definition of the Right Way is this: it is that which cannot be defined in that manner. Those who want the reassurance of something Solidly Right to hold onto should embrace their own fallibility, as their inability to know for certain is the only thing they can count on.

Of course it tastes like a Zen koan, did you think the source of light would shine it differently for people standing in the east? Paradox. The implicit disclaimer in both cases <“except for this definitive certainty”>. A cooked Zen koan, well-done, mildly pithy, powerful as potion.

Hey, if enough people choose the word Wicca and say as you do, you may have the word. I’ll take another. Perhaps invent my own.

20

I think a number of you have missed the fucking point here.

I never claimed to be some all-high-orthodoxy-priest who has all the answers, or even a significant number of them.

I said I was a Wiccan who worked hard to grow in his faith, and find Spirit in the world, in the Earth and within himself. I never expressed contempt for those beginning their path who don’t know much about what they’re starting, everyone’s like that once, no matter what faith.

I think that for me to consider someone a Wiccan, they have to put in at least the effort required to find out what faith it is that they supposedly belong to. It’s not about memorizing the rede, or writing spells, or finding all the answers, it’s about questioning, and growing, rather than pretending. If you were to look at a person who claims that they’re Christian because it helps them out, despite their lifestyle and lack of faith, it would probably anger you.

This goes for people who use religion to sell shit, too. It’s just not right, and it doesn’t take a universal agreement on what’s right to know that that just fucking isn’t.

LC