I don’t disagree with any of that, and I don’t claim to have any better ideas. But the trick of invading and occupying a territory while simultaneously improving the lives of its residents is going to have a very high degree of difficulty.
And I did say Hamas, excluding civilian Palestinians.
No, and no one is doing that. Yes, Israel is cutting off what they send, just like the Allies didnt send food to the Axis powers. But do note, Gaza shares a border with Egypt, they can send aid, not to mention the whole of Gaza is one long seacoast.
And again, I ask-
Because if all you can do is criticize what the iDF is doing or may be doing, rather than come up with solutions, then your point has no merit.
No, it is not- the atrocity is using the human shields in the first place.
I truly wish I could see this working, and will be glad to be proven wrong, but I can’t see a heart and minds campaign by Israel working, at least not anytime soon. Bringing in hospitals, food supplies and water isn’t even a question of working on hearts and minds though, it’s a requirement of the laws and customs of war.
I wish I had a solution, but smarter minds than me have yet to come up with anything that works over the past decades.
No, you didn’t. Everyone here can read exactly what you wrote, and the “them” you were replying to in saying what “they” did was demonstrably inhuman was referring to Palestinians caught in the crossfire, not Hamas. It’s too late to play the quibbling card. I congratulate you again on the bravery to openly admit your views though. Oh wait, no. That’s not something deserving of either congratulations or association with the word bravery.
One long seacoast which is completely blockaded by the Israeli Navy, and on which Israel has refused to allow the construction of any seaports. And international organizations say Israel has threatened to fire on any vehicles attempting to bring humanitarian aid in through the Egyptian border. (The IDF hasn’t confirmed or denied that AFAIK, but for some reason no aid is coming from that direction).
The Israelis themselves aren’t trying to deny what they’re doing. From the Guardian:
The energy minister, Israel Katz, wrote on social media that no “electrical switch will be turned on, no water hydrant will be opened and no fuel truck will enter” until the “abductees” were free.
Not trying to junior mod but I suggest people remember what forum they are in.
This is inaccurate.
Absolutely. And it’s made worse by the fact that Israel is a democracy. You simply do not win elections on a platform of “I know that they just did some horrible stuff to us but we gotta think long term here and be nice” - even if that’s your platform, the actual pitch is more along the lines of “Bibi’s actions have radicalized the Palestinians and strengthened Hamas” than anything else. So it’s not just that this is a challenging thing to pull off; with the incentive structures inherent to democracy being what they are, it’s difficult to even try.
That being said. There are some things that work in Israel’s favor.
For one, it’s not like Hamas has a particularly stellar human rights record when it comes to their own treatment of Palestinians (especially Palestinians who disagree with Hamas).
Second, Israel’s problem with aid coming into Gaza isn’t with the aid itself; Israel has two fears:
- That weapons or materials for rockets will be smuggled in along with the aid
- That Hamas will use monetary aid or aid it can sell to raise funding for weapons
If Israel controls Gaza, then they can control exactly what comes in, either searching the aid that’s donated by the world community or just providing Israeli products. And if they distribute the aid themselves in areas under Israeli control, the second concern is gone as well.
Thats funny, since to me, Hamas no longer qualifies as “human”.
Dont try and put words in my mouth.
Good point. Some posters are getting too personal here.
Why does Israel have an obligation to supply the enemy?
Blockades are a part of war. Hamas started it.
But Israel is not cutting off food etc to children, they are cutting off aid to Hamas.
Right.
It seems unlikely that the people of palestine that disagree with what Hamas is doing will get any aid, since Hamas has the guns, and will use the food, etc as a weapon. “Do what we say or you dont get food”.
The focus on Hamas ignores the real player here: Iran. Iran wants Israel destroyed, and they will feed weapons and money and give training to anyone willing to do it.
None of this ends until Iran stops trying to wipe Israel off the map. If Israel destroys Hamas, there’s always Hezbollah, and if they wiped them out (a much harder task) another group will just take their place.
What has to end is the funding and support for the terrorists. And the ‘humanitarian’ aid to the Palestinians which perpetuates the conflict by enriching the leaders. If the conflict ends and peace erupts, the money train stops running.
Today the US pulled back the $6 billion they released to Iran a couple of weeks ago. That’s a good thing. It should never have been released in the first place.
That is the worse atrocity. Not the only one.
A criminal holds a child in front of them to avoid being shot at by the police as he shoots at them. Horrible.
The police shoot through the child’s head to kill the criminal. No worries because the atrocity was using the human shield in the first place?
You’re fooling no one.
Taking this sentence by sentence:
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Because otherwise hundreds of thousands of children will die of dehydration.
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Yes, gross violations of human rights are unfortunately a part of war, and should be energetically protested against, no matter who is committing them.
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Are you in third grade?
I think Iran (meaning the current government of Iran) wants Israel terrorized, and most importantly, wants to use Israel’s existence to shore up their own power within Iran and ward off other factions that might try to lead Iran. If Israel was destroyed, what subject would Iran use as a cudgel to control their own people and quell dissent?
Similar to how Netanyahu wanted to use the threat of Iran (and Hamas) to stay in power, but didn’t actually want them to go away.
Not only is Israel bombing the Egyptian-Gaza border crossing, but Egypt has also not closed the border.
The Egyptian Foreign Ministry urges Israel to stop attacking the Palestinian side of the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt so that it can be reopened, Channel 12 reports.
The crossing has been closed since it was hit by IAF airstrikes on Tuesday afternoon, after Israel declared that no food or fuel would be allowed into the Strip in an effort to implement a complete blockade to isolate Hamas. The IAF said it bombed the crossing as it was targeting an underground smuggling tunnel.
In a statement, Egypt states that it did not close its side of the crossing, and calls on all countries and international organizations in the region to provide humanitarian aid to Gazans by flying it through the El-Arish airport in northern Sinai, located about 56 kilometers (35 miles) from the Rafah crossing.
This is a really misleading way to characterize Iran’s access to those funds. They were never “released” to Iran. They were held in trust, controlled by our own government and proposed to be released on a case-by-case basis after being reviewed jointly by Qatar and the US, solely for humanitarian expenses. Not a dime of this money was ever given to Iran.
Gift link:
Please deal in facts in P&E threads.
Moderating:
This discussion is getting very heated and personal. Dial it back and make sure your responses deal with content and not individual posters.
@babale, did you see this question? Curious about your thoughts. Thanks.
Oh, I agree completely. Of course it’s the current government, and not the people: The people of Iran are probably the mos pro-western population in the Middle East outside of Israel, which is why they are governed with an iron fist by the fanatics in charge.
And yes, Iran is another country using the Palestinian issue as a cudgel against Israel, which in turn is being used as a propaganda tool to keep their own population’s focus away from their own horribleness.
They also know that actually trying to wipe out Israel woul likely result in Israeli nukes raining down on them.
Yeah, I chose a poor word. The media has been saying ‘released’, which made it weird when they said the funds had been stopped. They clearly weren’t ‘released’ if they could be pulled back. I guess a better term would be ‘authorized for release’? With the authorization subsequently pulled back before any money actually changed hands?
I have seen the allegations that Netanyahu purposefully allowed Hamas to come to power. I don’t know if I buy these claims. I think his actions are more completely explained by the fact that dealing with Hamas permenantly would have required going back into Gaza, which would cost a lot of Israeli soldiers’ lives (and Gazan lives, but those are lost with airstrikes too) and would be immensely unpopular.
Don’t forget that Sharon left Likud over the withdrawal to form a new party, and that Netanyahu stayed behind. So the withdrawl and Hamas’ takeover are two separate things.
Now, I do think that Netanyahu’s policy since he took over has strengthened Hamas; and like I mentioned, he has been in leadership for almost the entire time that Hamas was growing. But I don’t think this was purposeful.