I hate hate hate this argument. Number one, if you’re not driving impaired now and not getting pulled over for DUI stops now, even under the Target Zero “crackdown” on impaired driving that focuses on alcohol DUI but picks up prescription or illicit drug impairment too, do you really think that’s going to change significantly once you can legally have up to an ounce of pot around?
Number two, for a DUI arrest, the cop has to take 2-4 hours out of their shift to take you to a hospital to have your blood drawn and maintain the chain of custody while that’s going on, and yet for all that, the cop doesn’t even get to see your results of the test! The blood isn’t tested unless the prosecutor working the DUI case decides there’s sufficient probable cause and proof of impairment at the time of the stop to order the drug tests to be done.
Number three, as someone who’s been volunteering with New Approach since we had to collect signatures to send the initiative to the legislature last year, the biggest lie I hear from the opponents is “the 5ng/ml limit has no scientific basis.” And while I’d be happy to agree that properly conducted field tests are more indicative of true impairment than blood content*, there are plenty of studies supporting a limit around 5ng/ml. They’re linked at newapproachwa.org on the FAQ page, and it’s not like we pulled them out of thin air. Yes, there are other studies showing maybe 5ng/ml is too low or too high, but honestly, this is a compromise based on best available science, and some of the tax revenue is designated for studies designed to continue to study impairment.
I think, though, my biggest thing is that I just want to scream as loud as possible “DON’T LET THE PERFECT BE THE ENEMY OF THE GOOD!” at the opponents who pick nits. I-502 isn’t “perfect” because if it was, a lot of non-stoners wouldn’t vote for it. It’s baby steps. Prove to the non-smokers without a lot of experience with pot that the world won’t go to hell in a handbasket, then write initiatives to get your homegrow or try to lower the age limit to 18 or whatever it is you don’t think is perfect enough. Appreciate the statement we’re attempting to make, the changes we’re working for, and once you get the benefit of them, take the torch and keep running. (And while you’re waiting, stop lying to people, please and thank you.)
*Of course most of the people I speak to are convinced that all of the cops are hugely biased against stoners, so why these people think cops will lie about impairment when there’s a blood draw but not when there’s skill tests only confuse the heck out of me.
I appreciate that you’re taking a stand for something you believe in, Leiko, but even assuming you’re right that possession arrests will not simply be replaced by DUI arrests, the facts remain;
I-502 does not change the classification of cannabis as a Class 1 drug under state law.
I-502 does not and cannot override the federal classification of cannabis as a Class 1 drug.
I-502 does not eliminate the penalties for growing marijuana at home.
I-502 does not eliminate the penalties for “gifting” marijuana - you can legally possess a joint, but if you pass it to your buddy, you are guilty of felony distribution.
I-502 provides marijuana users no protection against summary termination by employers on the basis of testing positive for cannabis use on a drug test (which, as i’m sure you’re aware, can produce a “positive” up to a month after consumption).
The dispensary scheme proposed by I-502 is unworkable, will not be competitive with street dealers, and will not withstand federal scrutiny.
The DUI standard established by I-502 does not allow the accused any right to appeal on the grounds that they have a medical need to consume cannabis, and will result in an increased work load for the courts and the DOL dealing with license restrictions and revocations - which will itself have an adverse impact on the quality of life of Washingtonians caught up in the dragnet.
I, personally, don’t have a dog in the fight when it comes to marijuana legalization. I don’t use marijuana, and I wouldn’t use it if it were legal. I will concede that the current status quo is untenable, but as a believer in our Constitutional system of federal supremacy, it is my belief that legalization, if and when it occurs, must occur through Congress, not through the states attempting to nullify federal law in the same way that the southern states tried to preserve Jim Crow in the '50s and '60s. I-502 is not only the wrong way to go about legalization, it doesn’t even do what it sets out to achieve, and if passed will only result in a situation where good people end up in jail for doing things that they believed were legal when they did them.
I seem to remember similar things being said about the California proposition a couple of years ago. What is the right way to legalize it?
I think you may be onto something.
If enough states so start to legalize it, that puts pressure on the federal government. And if it’s starting to look like it is the will of the people, that could lead to a lack of enforcement of the federal laws. Any social pressure to legalize is a good thing, even if the efforts themselves are flawed.
Still, there are tons of hurdles. Not the least of which is the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, which will present a problem even if Congress is willing to legalize.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but if I recall correctly, there is a process for the States to amend the Constitution regardless of what the Federal Government thinks, provided they have sufficient numbers to hold the convention. Is it not reasonable that perhaps these state ballot measures are are the first steps in moving that direction?
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I seem to remember similar things being said about the California proposition a couple of years ago. What is the right way to legalize it?
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As I said above, the only “right” way to legalize it is for Congress to act, concurrent with regulatory action by the DEA. What needs to happen if and when that day comes should look something like this;
Marijuana is descheduled from the list of controlled substances maintained by the DEA
Full repeal of laws regarding possession and non-commercial distribution up to a certain amount
Creation of a standard allowing private citizens to grow a certain number of plants for personal use, in line with current standards for home-brewed alcohol
Allow the states to establish licensing and tax schemes for commercial distributors
Allow the states to establish a standard for DUI which is scientifically sound
Establish a federal tax concurrent to any state or local tax
Establish guidelines for a chemical or field test to determine whether someone is currently impaired by marijuana, not simply whether they’ve used it days or weeks ago
Protect employees from termination for testing positive for marijuana when the employee is not demonstrably impaired while working
Instruct the FDA to conduct an impartial and scientific study of any potential medical benefits of marijuana, followed by a determination on if, when, and how marijuana or its chemical derivatives may be marketed as a medical product
What I’m seeing here with I-502, quite simply, does so little of this that even if it weren’t for the federal issue, I wouldn’t be comfortable supporting it.
As to the convention issue - it’s true that the legislatures of two-thirds of the states could call a Constitutional convention - but since there’s no guarantee that that convention would restrict itself to the question of drug law, and considering how many states are currently run by people who’d like to turn America into a right-wing theocracy, I don’t think we need to go down that road.
I think waiting for the feds to hash all that out would take too long. It’s not a bad idea letting a couple states take the lead and work some of this out.
Anybody who thinks growing fine smoking weed is easy has never tried it. Ditch weed has the same relationship to top quality sinsemilla as that broke down pony the local trailer trash keeps in their backyard junk lot does to a Triple Crown winner. Yes, any fool can throw some seeds out and get a pot plant. Just try to sell the result to someone who knows shit from shinola about good weed and you’ll get laughed out the door. Smoke it yourself and enjoy the headache!
And Phillip Morris will never get anywhere trying to mass produce pot because assholes like me will make damned sure to throw big handfuls of ditchweed seed into their carefully cloned lady fields–or stand upwind with a nice sack of hemp pollen about five weeks before harvest time. Good luck with that, corporate tools!
I’ve tried it and it’s not that hard. You make a good point in that it’s very clearly not as simple ad throwing some seeds in the ground in April and harvesting in October but it’s much easier than tobacco.
Coincidentally, I’m growing tobacco right now. It’s really easy. They’re fast growing easy care plants. I think it’s the drying, curing, flavoring and milling of tobacco that is hard. I’m not even going to try.
Technically the state legislatures (2/3rds of them) could call on congress to start a convention to propose an amendment to the constitution to legalize marijuana possession, which is then ratified by 3/4ths of the states.
But congress is still at least nominally involved, I think.
I’d be over-the-moon if everything on your list happened. For now, there’s nothing on the ballot approaching it (I’ll admit I-502 is lacking multiple elements I’d like to see, starting with the employee drug testing you mention), so I’m going for the closest thing we can get now. It’s not an all-or-nothing situation for me. I’d rather make some progress and still need to do more next year (or, more likely, next midterm or presidential election) than have nothing change between then and “now.” Fingers crossed, if enough people have this same opinion as me, Washington can strike a blow against prohibition. Fingers crossed!
And cannabis and tobacco have it in common as well that they’re labor intensive as hell in the final stages. Weed has to be trimmed properly–there exist machines to do this but they don’t produce as good a result as hand trimming does. Good trimmers get $20 an hour and it can take a person several hours to trim one plant. Curing is an art in itself because a bad cure can ruin good bud. Add in all the fun of indoor growing–which is necessary because the photoperiod plays havoc with trying to produce outdoors in winter even if you can manage the temperature–with the attendant issues with spider mites, aphids, the fussiness of different strains and their sometimes wildly divergent nutrient needs and the need to rigidly control the environmental factors like temperature and humidity and the production headaches grow exponentially. Couple ticks too high in humidity and you get bud rot, couple degrees too hot and you get bolted fluffy bullshit, get your nutes wrong and lock out the roots and the whole thing will die in a matter of days–it’s the polar opposite of simple!
Production costs to the grower are a hell of a lot higher than people think and Craigslist is tippy top full of second hand grow equipment being sold by those optimists who thought growing weed would be a license to print money. 'Tain’t so, not by a long shot.
Supposedly CO dispensaries are worried about amendment 64. The fear is the price of pot will drop too low for them to stay in business. I’ve also heard an amendment is the wrong way to go about regulating a drug.
My fear is that what is already happening, is going to escalate. That is, the price of illegal weed in other states remains high, while it’s dirt cheap in CO, so we’ll see an increase in smuggling.
I saw that too, and was reminded that a Doper (SDMB member that is) once claimed that they toked up a righteous fattie gilligan with ol’ Steve (“Bogart”) Kroft, who was the reporter for tonight’s 60 Minutes Colorado Marijuana piece.