That specific Cross in red over yellow belongs to a specific Battallion of the Tercios; it represents that Battallion and none other. Every other French or Spanish corps to ever fly the Cross had it in red over white. As its name indicates it doesn’t originate in Spain, but in Burgundy when it was an independent state.
Miss. is 37% black.
Have I missed a discussion on the boards? Where is the Hammer and Sickle being flown by a US government?
Except no-one in this thread (or any of the others, as far as I can see) is challenging the flying of the Confederate flag on those grounds. People and governments can choose to fly it. The question isn’t whether they can fly that flag; it’s whether they should fly it.
That seems to be a common misunderstanding of the role of free speech in this debate, not just here but elsewhere: the right to do something doesn’t make it the right thing to do. The right to express oneself by flying the Confederate flag, guaranteed by the First Amendment, doesn’t immunize one from criticism by others for that decision, equally using their free speech rights.
Consequences such as arson, vandalism, and assault?
He didn’t say “consequences”, did he? You’re replying to a post that said “criticism”. Namely, “criticism by others for that decision, equally using their free speech rights.” So your question is, like, anticipated and already answered: the only consequences being referred to don’t include arson or vandalism or assault.
It’s weird that you copy-and-pasted the answer while you were asking; but there the answer is, because there the answer was.
Quite right. octopus’s reply seems to suggest there’s nothing between “flying the confederate flag is protected by free speech” and rioting and vandalism by opponents of the flag. Odd.
Also, still waiting for examples of US gouvernements flying the Hammer and Sickle and members of this board giving it a pass, as octopus suggests has happened.
The symbolism is slightly more subtle. The familiar flag under discussion is the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, *not *the “national” flag of the CSA. It specifically stands for *fighting *the damyank libruls, *not *for generalized regional pride.
Could have been that criticism is a dog whistle for consequences which is a dog whistle for getting someone fired and assault?
Well, one could, I suppose, use “criticism” as a dog whistle for assault; but (a) I’ve never heard of such a thing, and (b) one could also use it to uncomplicatedly mean assault-free criticism, is the thing.
To the extent that you have a point, the poster could’ve left it ambiguous; instead, the helpful clarification – right there in the same sentence – was that, no, this is literally the type of criticism that’s a mere matter of free-speech rights. And, well, it’s sure hard to imply A with a dog whistle while explicitly specifying B.
Or it could be that equating criticism with assault is just being a snowflake.
You do have the right to freedom of speech, yes. But you do not have a right to freedom from responsibility and consequences.
Assault with weapons, getting people fired, harassment, doxing all seem to be consequences that people here advocate.
I don’t think anyone here has advocated for any of those things. I would like to see state sponsored racism removed be it a flag, statues, or street and school names.
Let me get this straight:
People here say: remove statues.
You equate this to mean people are saying: it’s ok to assault people with weapons, try to get people fired, and harass them if they oppose removing statues?
:dubious:
Why can’t you hear the dog whistle? Or just go to the pit and read the commentary directed at those support fundamental freedoms.
In this specific case of statues, when an antifa crowd shows up to vandalize a statue stand in front of it, report back here with the consequences, and see what commentary you receive. Because your support of statues would mean you are a racist or Nazi and deserve whatever the mob inflicts.
No one is supporting statues. You are the only one who is supporting the status quo.
Don’t the people of Charlottesville, or any other place, have a First Amendment right *not *to be forced to express support for the traitors and slavers, or for their descendants the segregationists and other forms of racists, by keeping their monuments in place?
Dude, if you’re supporting the neo-Nazis and neo-Confederates over the patriots, it’s never going to go well for you.
I don’t quite agree. I think the historical reason matters. The part that somewhat resembles the Confederate flag (the blue diamond with the stars in it) seems to not have been a direct reference. But, during the whole KKK boom, they added an additional star for the Confederacy and put it on top of the other 3 in the redesign.
I at the very least would like to go back to the 3 star design. And, while we’re at it, it wouldn’t hurt to modify the diamond, if only to avoid misinterpretations Maybe make the 25 stars into diamonds, too, so we keep the reference to being the 25th state.
Still, I do agree inasmuch as it’s not as bad as the Mississippi flag. That one is an intentional reference created in the KKK times. That does make it worse. I just still think Arkansas should get rid of its Confederate star.
Or, at the very least, change the law to make the star officially stand for something else, if we can’t get it changed. (Note, I am an Arkansan.) I’m not sure what it could be, though, since we’ve so overloaded the 3 other stars.
The Trojans don’t exist anymore, and their descendants aren’t upset by it. Christians generally are not upset about the Devil, and don’t see using him as a mascot as being against Christians, as it generally hasn’t been used that way. If anything, use of the devil and how they modify him is seen as a sort of mockery.
No one is mocking the Rebels when they use them as a mascot. People aren’t flying the flag or defending KKK-installed monuments for the purpose of mockery. And both the living and the descendants of those the these symbols inherently attack do have a problem with them.
You can’t just take superficially similar examples and ignore the broader context. It just doesn’t work.
And, as I’ve said before, it should just be Southern Hospitality. Your neighbor is distressed. So be nice to them and take it down not to bother them.
I was behind a pickup truck yesterday with a Confederate flag sticker and the legend “GET OVER IT.” The irony was almost painful.
Given the current political climate, I don’t think that MS will have that flag much longer. Can’t see too many politicians wanting to die on that hill.