egkelly had an interesting question at the bottom of this thread that I didn’t see was answered completely. Is it possible to genetically engineer a plant that would directly yield a usable fuel AND possibly food?
I understand the inefficiency of current biofuels, in theory it sounds great but if more energy is needed to process and extract the fuel than is created they don’t seem as environmentally friendly as the marketing would have one believe. If this is just a byproduct of folks wanting to use these fuels in existing diesel engines, which requires that the glycerine be removed, then can new engines be created that would be able to handle the raw plant oils? I’m not suggesting this for cars or transportation but it seems like it would make sense for a third world community that could use a single crop to power a community generator while helping to feed the local population. Possibly power an irrigation pump or provide heat/AC, power a hospital etc. Does anybody know if this has been explored or is currently in use anywhere?
Secondly (and forgive me in advance for the INCREDIBLY stupid question) is there any possible way to extract power directly from plants? I’ve heard that certain plants like dandelions and blackberries store energy for later use so they can keep growing if resources are slim. Is there any way to tap into this energy? Take something like bamboo, the bulk of the the energy it creates and uses goes into growing, is there any way to extract the energy that the bamboo uses to create more bamboo and transfer it to something else? I guess what I’d ultimately like is to plug into my lawn so it stays in a constant stasis (won’t ever have to mow again…) and help power my house. Over simplified but you get the idea. Could there be a wealth of photosynthesizing power plants (sorry) right outside my door that are stubbornly growing at me when I could be harvesting their hard work to keep my beer cold? Will I ever be able to chunk a couple of electrodes into a tree and surf the straight dope?
I remember reading on a WVO (waste vegetable oil) site that it is possible to use unprocessed vegetable oil mixed with a small amount of kerosene to run a Diesel engine. At any rate, removing the glycerine is not all that difficult, and there is always the possibility of being able to sell the glycerine. But the problem with using fresh vegetable oil as a fuel is that it’s worth more as food. That is, it probably makes more economic sense to sell the vegetable oil and use part of the money to buy Diesel fuel. That’s why waste vegetable oil is usually used, because it has little or no value as food.
A great question,deadparrot, and I don’t know any answers, but would like to note that we do already rely on plant power; it’s just a lot of really old dead plants, ie, petroleum. And then there’s potatoes, coffee, sugar, vodka, paper, well, you get the picture…
One of the many consequences of the laws of thermodynamics is that you can never get as much energy out of a system as you put in. While getting power from plants requires you to expend more energy than you get, the same holds for any other power source.
Plants store energy for themselves (usually) in the form of sugars, starches and fats; we can interrupt the plant at some point (often near the end of the storage period) and use the stored energy ourselves (food). If we want to run machines on the stored energy, we can release it by burning. Another possibility is to process the stored chemicals into a more useful form - sugar cane or sugar beet can be fermented and distilled to produce alcohol, which in turn can be used in internal combustion engines.
except in this case, the energy being “put in” is in the form of sunlight wheras the engergy we get out is in the form of AA batteries and powering televisions.
Sure. There’s a transformation of energy in every form of generating electricity (other than getting electricity from electricity, which isn’t used). But every time you convert the form of energy, some is lost as heat.
Thanks for all the replies. If I’m to believe the hype at the site of the National Biodiesel Board then it looks like I can currently buy it in all 50 states in the US. They also say that it’s use is gaining acceptance in the shipping industry, this leads me to believe that it MUST be somewhat financially viable unless it really is a subsidy to farmers as suggested in the thread I referenced in the OP. But bibliophage has a great point that I can’t expect environmental responsibility to argue on an even playing field with the almighty dollar, I just liked the idea of letting the flora do the heavy lifting while we sit back and enjoy a somewhat renewable energy source.
As to my second question I know that we can use the stored energy of fruits and starches to burn as fuel but what I’m wondering is if we can intercept that energy before it’s stored. Stick with me as I flaunt my ignorance for all to see… Our nervous systems are electrically based right? For the sake of argument let’s say there was a way I could tap into my spinal cord (well…YOUR spinal cord) and leech off energy at a slow enough rate that it wouldn’t affect you too much. I’d strap a little battery pack around your waist and you’d be charging up a 9-volt after eating that cheesburger for lunch instead of generating fat. The more you eat the more I leech so you stay at a constant mass and I get some relatively free power. Do plants have a nervous system? Could we intercept the energy that they want to use to grow? It would be some kind of flora/fauna Matrix…“You’re a begonia, Mis-ter An-der-son.”
The only country I know that has tried “bio-power” is Brazil. Back in the 1970’s, the decision was made by the Brazilian Govt., that alcohol (produced from sugar cane) was to substitute for gasoline. Currently, the Brazilian auto fleet is about 45% powered by ethyl alcohol. Overall, it has worked, except that the net energy of alcohol is about half that for gasoline. Also, considerable energy is used to distill the alcohol (in Brazil the sugar cane waste (bagasse) is used to fire the stills).
Experts estimate that the net energy from this is about 10% of that obtained from pumping petroleum from the ground.
Alcohol would not work in the USA-more energy would be used to produce that would be obtained from burning it in automobiles.
[sup]And if you don’t know what kudsu is you ain’t from the south[/sup]