I understand that 99%+ of Arabs and Muslims in the US condem the WTC/Pentagon terrorist acts, but how wrong will it be to profile Arabs and Muslims at border crossings and boarding flights by paying special attention to their passports, luggage, etc…
Arabs and Muslims must feel a sense of embarassment and guilt not unlike Japanese Americans during WWII.
If the event has taught us anything, it should be that rather than profiling, we should be adopting the (extremely inconvenient) approach of El Al Airlines, where everyone is a terrorist until it is proven otherwise.
“Profile” people who appear to be from the Mid-East? I know several Lebanese and Egyptians whose names shock people on first acquaintance because the people are expecting (by their appearance) to be greeting a Tim Murphy or an Alan Trudeau. The simply do not have any “Arab” (or Afghani or any other Islamic culture) appearance.
Very poor choice of words. When they haven’t done anything wrong, there’s nothing to feel guilty about.
I bet what they are feeling is threatened—from harrassment by law enforcement, and assaults from self-appointed vigilantes. They will be going through what happened to the Japanese-Americans during WWII. Even I have been getting weird looks, thanks to my dark complexion (Italian). All dark-complexioned people, whether Hispanic, Mediterranean, Indian, or Pacific Islander, will have to be cautious with all the hysteria now. Even though, as tomndebb astutely noted, one’s appearance is not necessarily an accurate indicator of one’s ethnicity (let alone political beliefs). There were many vigilante attacks on American Muslims after the Oklahoma City bombing. Mosques burned with arson, women assaulted. Women especially are vulnerable because of their appearance.
It depresses me that you’re even seriously considering this question.
Frankly I don’t see any problem with the suggestion.
It is estimated that thousands of innocent people died
because of the attacks!
I’d rather have innocent people trying to board planes be
subjected to searches based on a profile than have innocent
people killed.
I am italian-american and I fly a lot for my job. If the
mafia claimed responsibility for the attacks tomorrow I
would gladly submit to searches that passengers of other
profiles were not given.
If it could bring back just one person killed in the
attacks, I would agree to a special search of me and
my luggage for every flight for the rest of my life.
I think opposing such measures is taking political
correctness way too far.
So, you think that profiling, which would be ineffective in the cases of the people I know, is preferred to examining everyone? And that opposing shoddy methods with a known failure rate is somehow “PC”, but treating all passengers with the same thoroughness is not an option?
I’m for whatever increased searches we can get. That is,
if you must choose between a certain level of searches
for everyone and a certain level of searches for everyone
except for an extra higher amount of searching for people of
whatever profile we find the terrorists had (even if I fit
it), then don’t let political correctness stop you.
I don’t see any problem with the question, but then again I don’t see any reason for it either. The main problem with it is that the terrorists would simply circumvent such a small thing. The best thing to do would be to beef up actual security on the plane.
Do you belive that all men are created equal? Do you believe that all men are born with certain inalienable rights? If so, then I suppose your answer is a resounding NO: there is no ethical motivation for racial profiling.
Profiling based on country of origin? Sure. But once you’re in this country, by gosh and by golly, you should be protected under the same constitution as everyone else. I am completely appalled by the WWII behavior back home here. Such acts find no manner of justification with the possible exception of nothing I can think of.
Constitutional issues aside (and it is a pesky issue aint it?), the problem is that “profiling” doesn’t appear to work. I’ll quote from this site.
Admittedly, the studies I’ve seen have dealt with "regular " crime, not terrorism. Still, I’ve sen nothing that indicates it is an effective policing tool. Compounding the problem is that those in organizations which engage in profiling think it works (or they wouldn’t do it), and this detracts from effective interdiction methods.
Remember Oklahoma City? Let’s point fingers…and then it’s one of us.
We can’t jump to any conclusions until there is no doubt who we are dealing with.
I, for one, would be offended if I was stopped because of such assumptions, but I think I would understand.
I think this could have happened regardless of anything. They obviously were able to get around just about everything else.
I don’t know. I’m just so sad.
Here we go again.
There’s nothing wrong with “profiling”. Its a fact that certain “groups” of people tend to commit a disproportionate level of certain types of crime.
For instance, White men tend to commit a disproportionate amount of serial killings. Therefore, when police first suspect a serial killer, their first composite “profile” is almost always a White man.
Also, if police see a White motorist driving slowly in a Black neighborhood late at night, They’ll probably suspect he’s looking for either drugs or prostitutes. Thats because Blacks tend to sell drugs out in the open, on street corners. Is it wrong for the police to profile the White motorist driving slowly through the Black neighborhood late at night?
Sorry, I cant expound further. Perhaps later.
How can you ‘profile’ a Muslim if he is from Bosnia? central Russia? Albania?
There are millions of white Muslims, and black Muslims, Asian Muslims, and so on…not all Muslims look even remotely alike. And not all wear robes, turbans, hajeebs, and fezes. It would be like profiling Catholics.
In regards to your latest post, GENE STONER, you have been put on permanent “ignore.”
It dont matter if people ignore me, cause I’m still here.
By the way, can you prove me wrong?
We need to avoid profiling more than ever now. If we focus exlusively on investigating those with Arab appearance at airports and other security checkpoints now, it will make the job easier for the next round of terrorists. All they’ll need to do is send somebody who doesn’t meet the profile to do the job.
And as Jomo Mojo pointed out, the OP’s reasoning is deeply flawed. Arab’s should feel “guilt and embarassment”? Should I feel “guilt and embarassment” because I’m the same skin color as Timothy McVeigh?
Your assertion that
is so offensive that it barely warrants consideration. But just a question: which “Blacks” tends to do this? All of them? Just poor blacks or young blacks or male blacks? It seems to me that the only ones who sell drugs in the open, on street corners, are the ones who sell drugs in the open, on street corners. And your absurd generalizations don’t change that.
You also wrote:
But this is not the type of profiling being addressed in the thread. You may be right that serial killers are ‘profiled’ as white men more often than not. But this is done AFTER a crime has been committed which the police are seeking to solve.
The type of profiling being discussed in the thread involves a pre-emptive derogation of people’s civil liberties just because they happen to fit some generalized stereotype. The only way that you can extend it to your example is if you have some proof that white men are being constantly pulled over, harrassed, unreasonably searched etc. on the basis of the fact that they constitute the most likely group to commit serial murder. That seems a bit unlikely to me.
mhendo, I have heard some possible reasons for profiling white males in response to serial killings. First is the whole testosterone thing for targeting men in the first place, the second is that-- in America-- white males are economically advantaged statistically, and it takes a person of certain means to be a serial killer. As such, unless given other evidence, white males are the primary target.
I would be suprised if anyone normally felt that there was some genetic predisposition in caucasian males to become a serial killer. They are such a statistically rare phenomenon that, short of a mutation occurring in several unrelated blood lines, there is no “serial killer” gene.
And more than white males have been serial killers anyway, on a worldwide scale.
Jake, an excellent citation.
Right or wrong, profiling has occured and will continue to occur at some level in the wake of these bombings. The question of right or wrong is only of academic or philosophical interest, because you can be sure that whoever is on the front line of airport security will not care what ANY other human being thinks about profiling if they feel profiling will help them catch the next hijacker.
It’s not my point of view at all that profiling is correct. I’m just acting as a benign pair of binoculars to you all.
All that said, El Al’s strategy of dealing with all passengers as potential terrorists is by far the most effective way to dela with terrorism so far employed by any world airline. I have no problem with U.S. airlines following El Al’s lead.