Will the LIBOR banking scandal manage to finally force banking reform in the US?

[Whack-a-Mole]

I know this is not getting much attention in the US media (some but so far, as some pundits have noted, headline news seems more concerned about Tom and Katie getting divorced).

However, this distinctly qualifies as a Big Deal[sup]tm[/sup].

Here is one take on it by Matt Taibbi at Rolling Stone:

But to me what’s missing from all of this is the “Holy Fucking Shit!” factor. This story is so outrageous that it shocks even the most cynical Wall Street observers. I have a friend who works on Wall Street who for years has been trolling through the stream of financial corruption stories with bemusement, darkly enjoying the spectacle as though the whole post-crisis news arc has been like one long, beautifully-acted, intensely believable sequel to Goodfellas. But even he is just stunned to the point of near-speechlessness by the LIBOR thing. “It’s like finding out that the whole world is on quicksand,” he says.

SOURCE: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/why-is-nobody-freaking-out-about-the-libor-banking-scandal-20120703

For those unaware LIBOR is the London Interbank Offered Rate and, according to the Wall Street Journal, $800 trillion (yes you read that right…trillions) in securities and loans are linked to the LIBOR rate.

Sixteen banks are involved with setting this rate each day and it is being claimed that Barclays bank was involved in manipulating this rate for their own profit. Their CEO, Bob Diamond, has just resigned over it as has its chairman Marcus Agius.

Now, it may seem that this is just a Barclays thing but it can’t be. The way the LIBOR is set is the top four and lowest four reported rates are tossed out each day and the rate is set by the middle eight banks. In order to manipulate the rate you need the cooperation of most of the banks to make it happen.

Citibank, JP Morgan Chase and Bank of America participate in this (so basically the three biggest banks in the US).

This is yet one more example among many that the banks are making up their own rules and everyone else be damned. Will this one be big enough for us to finally force some change or will they piously claim it was just some rogue traders and they will be sure to clean up their own mess…again?

[elucidator]

Scandal? There was a scandal? It was in, like, England, or someplace, right?

[JLRogers]

What elucidator said. Reform is off the table. Americans are too busy watching trash TV and self-medicating with booze and processed foods. Panem et circenses keep us docile.

And no, that is not an allusion to Hunger Games.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@elucidator

Scandal? There was a scandal? It was in, like, England, or someplace, right?

Yeah but as noted there is a good chance American banks are involved.

Certainly some traders in New York, at the least, were involved:

In one email dated November 22, 2005, a senior trader in New York wrote to a trader in London:

“WE HAVE TO GET KICKED OUT OF THE FIXINGS TOMORROW!! We need a 4.17 fix in 1m (low fix) We need a 4.41 fix in 3m (high fix).” 1m and 3m refer to one-month and three-month Libor rates.

Nearly six months later, on February 1, 2006, another New York trader asks a London trader to keep the three-month Libor rate low until the bank gets out of its position:

“You need to take a close look at the reset ladder. We need 3M to stay low for the next 3 sets and then I think that we will be completely out of our 3M position. Then its on. [Submitter] has to go crazy with raising 3M Libor.”

SOURCE: http://buzz.money.cnn.com/2012/07/04/barclays-libor-email/

[John_Mace]

What is it about people with the last name “Diamond”?

[clairobscur]

Thanks for starting this thread, because there was something I wondered about regarding this scandal : So far there has only been a massive fine, but coud companies (especially other banks) or maybe even individuals sue the involved banks for losses incured as a result of the manipulation of the LIBOR and IBOR rates? If so, how massive could be the damages claimed? Could fines and damages be a threat for the very survival of the guilty banks?

Also, could individuals who provided the falsified figures to authorities be criminally liable? What about the traders who told them what rates they should declare?

[clairobscur]

@Whack-a-Mole

Now, it may seem that this is just a Barclays thing but it can’t be.?

My understanding was there was already ample evidences of involvment of other banks, like in email exchanges “WTF, your guys aren’t declaring the correct fake rate we had agreed upon! Rectify ASAP, pretty please” (paraphrased)
Maybe I’m too naive but I’m quite surprised that there hasn’t been a single whistleblower given the number of individuals involved in the manipulation.

[John_Mace]

The news story I heard yesterday indicated there could be rather large class action suits since LIBOR is used to set mortgage rates.

[RitterSport]

@John_Mace

What is it about people with the last name “Diamond”?

Yeah, that Neil Diamond, not bringing anyone flowers anymore. Or, did you mean Jamie Dimon, from JP Morgan?

LIBOR is definitely used for credit card rates in the US, but I thought LIBOR mortgages were more of an English thing. Maybe ARMs use LIBOR?

[John_Mace]

@RitterSport

Yeah, that Neil Diamond, not bringing anyone flowers anymore. Or, did you mean Jamie Dimon, from JP Morgan?

Only heard the names on the radio-- haven’t seen them written.

LIBOR is definitely used for credit card rates in the US, but I thought LIBOR mortgages were more of an English thing. Maybe ARMs use LIBOR?

Yes, ARMs. Not all, but lots.

[XT]

Will the LIBOR banking scandal manage to finally force banking reform in the US?

Why would it? Simply because some US banks are part of the system, and might (I’ve seen no actual evidence) have been fixing their own rates? I don’t see how or why that would cause a major reform of the US banking system…I see that as possibly causing those US banks who might have fixed their rates to also have to pay a penalty.

I found this quick and dirty explanation of the scandal for anyone interested:

What is Libor? Libor (London interbank offered rate) is one of the key European benchmarks for the interest rate that banks charge each other to lend money. It is calculated by averaging borrowing costs between banks. The Australian equivalent is called the bank bill swap rate.

Why is it important? Lending rates to households and businesses depend on an accurate market mechanism. Given trillions of dollars of financial products globally are priced using Libor rates - including some Australian bank debt - the benchmark is hard-wired into the world’s financial system. Inaccurate figures would serve to undermine market confidence.

How was Barclays involved? At the height of the financial crisis, the British investment bank lowered its Libor submissions to give the illusion it was in better financial shape than its true borrowing costs were reflecting. In its defence, Barclays claims other banks were already underpricing their own Libor rate submissions. This left Barclays exposed as an outlier while submitting accurate rates (see chart) potentially stoking concerns over its health.
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But regulators claim the rate-rigging occurred as early as 2006, suggesting trading profits were also a motivation. Barclays has been fined the equivalent of $440 million by regulators in the US and Britain. Attention has now turned to more than 10 big banks scattered around the globe, including for their role in manipulating Libor.

What about Australian rates? Under the British system, the process that banks use to come up with their individual rates is opaque and not based on actual transactions. Australia’s BBSW rates are more robust, being priced on physical transactions between banks.

-XT

[XT]

Here’s a bit more detailed article on the scandal, if anyone is interested.

A DAY after abruptly resigning amid a mushrooming scandal over interest-rate manipulation, former Barclays chief Robert Diamond was assailed by British politicians for the bank’s actions, in a preview of the scrutiny that other big lenders under investigation are likely to face.

Barclays last week agreed to pay $US453 million ($441.2m) to settle allegations by US and British authorities that the British bank tried to manipulate the London interbank offered rate, or Libor, which is the benchmark for interest rates on trillions of dollars of loans to individuals and businesses around the world.

Barclays executives initially believed they could ride out any resulting fallout from the settlement and accompanying admission that Barclays had acted improperly. But by Tuesday, the scandal had prompted the resignations of Mr Diamond, Barclays chairman Marcus Agius and chief operating officer Jerry del Missier, some of the British banking industry’s most prominent figures. No individuals were charged.

The Libor affair isn’t solely a Barclays problem and the scandal has also tainted Royal Bank of Scotland. A class action in the US over the setting of Libor rates has named Bank of America, Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase & Co, UBS, Deutsche Bank and Barclays.

In the UK, the scandal has quickly touched other top figures in the British political and finance establishment. That is partly because Mr Diamond sought to deflect some of the blame by saying that Mr del Missier, the COO and one of his deputies, believed that by lowering Barclays’s Libor submissions he was acting at the behest of a top Bank of England official, Paul Tucker. That allegation is explosive, since Mr Tucker has been regarded as a front-runner to become the central bank’s next governor.

Libor, a measure of how much banks have to pay to borrow from each other, is drawn up daily following submissions from a group of 16 giant banks, which report their borrowing costs for loans of different maturities and in different currencies.

Investigations of more than a dozen banks, by authorities on three continents, are starting to unearth evidence that some banks improperly sought to manipulate Libor. Regulators say that some banks, including Barclays, submitted artificially low readings during the early days of the financial crisis as part of an effort to mask the financial problems they were encountering.

Analysts say the industry may have to shell out billions of dollars to settle the cases and other bank chiefs could find themselves in the crosshairs.

Yesterday’s three-hour parliamentary hearing in London didn’t yield much new information about what some industry executives say was a widespread practice of submitting faulty Libor data. It also didn’t fully clarify the roles played by Mr Tucker or British government officials.

-XT

[Whack-a-Mole]

@XT

Why would it? Simply because some US banks are part of the system, and might (I’ve seen no actual evidence) have been fixing their own rates? I don’t see how or why that would cause a major reform of the US banking system…I see that as possibly causing those US banks who might have fixed their rates to also have to pay a penalty.

Because I think this is bigger than most people are aware of. Partly because this is obscure and complex finance shit that doesn’t lend itself to our short attention span and partly because the MSM is not really jumping on it*.

I doubt I need to remind people here (but I will anyway) that the financial systems of the world are deeply intertwined. It is a gigantic house of cards and poking at one corner may seem remote to some but have the potential to have far flung knock-on effects.

Further, it is hard to imagine this as a UK-only scandal. As mentioned the way the LIBOR is set up it is almost impossible to imagine how RBS and Barclays alone could manipulate rates (remember the top four and bottom four reported rates are tossed and the rate is pegged from the middle eight reporting). So, Barclays could fudge numbers but alone would have little to no effect on this. It almost certainly requires the collusion of many more banks.

More broadly is faith in the financial system. It is becoming increasingly apparent that the game is rigged against retail investors. Institutional investors are running the game and stacking the deck against everyone else. This is no small thing and if retail investors lose faith and decide it is not in their interest to play the game because it is rigged that would also have profound impacts on global finance.

How many body blows can the system take before people stop wanting to participate?
*As for the MSM not reporting it seems some did try and were bullied into backing off the story:

Last week, Gillian Tett of the Financial Times wrote how five years previously, she and her fellow journalists were intimidated into backing off of a huge story about banks manipulating LIBOR.

<snip>

At the heart of the allegations is what appears to be a blasé criminal conspiracy within Barclays. Moreover, Tett is correct. Barclays is far from alone.

Unfortunately, the intimidation was a success. The BBA and Barclays chose their word carefully, because accusing journalists of “scaremongering” suggests they are irresponsible sensationalist hacks. In essence, through lies and intimidation, they threatened to ruin careers.

SOURCE: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/janet-tavakoli/financial-journalism-some_b_1647093.html

ETA: I will also note the fines they are forced to pay are laughable in the scheme of things. It’d be like you robbing a bank and if caught your penalty is having to return some of the money.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@XT

Why would it? Simply because some US banks are part of the system, and might (I’ve seen no actual evidence) have been fixing their own rates? I don’t see how or why that would cause a major reform of the US banking system…I see that as possibly causing those US banks who might have fixed their rates to also have to pay a penalty.

Some more info that this may be broader than a UK thing:

Banks across the world were fixing interest rates in the run-up to the financial crisis but regulators failed to take action to stop it, the former head of Barclays claimed yesterday.

Giving evidence to Parliament Bob Diamond said Barclays had raised the issue of banks ‘under-reporting’ the true amount they were having to pay to borrow money but were ignored.

SOURCE: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/bob-diamond-banks-across-the-world-were-fixing-interest-rates-in-runup-to-the-financial-crisis-16181211.html

[clairobscur]

@XT

I found this quick and dirty explanation of the scandal for anyone interested:

-XT

But this (Barclays fixing its figures to look better) is only the tip of the iceberg (and the reason why Barclays was fined).

What is now alleged is that a number of banks colluded to fix the LIBOR and IBOR rates so that they could make money on related instruments, knowing in advance what the rates would be. Some of the emails published read something like “we put Y money into this, so it would be nice if you made the rate to be X”. It is alleged that traders would routinely call whoever was in charge of the official declaration to tell them what fake rate should be declared, and that representatives of the involved banks would negotiate about the future fixed rates.

This is an entirely different level of manipulation, and vastly more infuriating.

[elbows]

But where Brits like to drag their shit into the open and deal with it, American’s somewhat prefer the ‘head in the sand’ approach.

In Britain some CEO recipients of mega bonuses, were actually shamed into returning them. That could not happen in the US. There is no shame. And besides, whatever it is, they’d rather remain ignorant than deal with it. Not a single wall street reform has been put into place since Obama took office. Not one change.

[Ulfreida]

The time when I hoped that the vast banking frauds and scandals that have caused ruin and havoc in the US economy would be corrected and those responsible brought to justice and new regulation and oversight be instituted has long since passed.

The US political system is constructed such that all politicians must grovel to the corrupt banks in order to stay in power. Can you say Timothy Geitner? I have despaired.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Ulfreida

The time when I hoped that the vast banking frauds and scandals that have caused ruin and havoc in the US economy would be corrected and those responsible brought to justice and new regulation and oversight be instituted has long since passed.

The US political system is constructed such that all politicians must grovel to the corrupt banks in order to stay in power. Can you say Timothy Geitner? I have despaired.

Generally I agree but I am hoping (a tiny hope) this may be different.

Nothing happens as long as those with the money are riding on the gravy train. However, shit moves fast when you start taking money from those people. Witness Madoff. Not like he was the only crook on Wall Street but instead of ripping off grandma he ripped off other rich people. He went to jail so fast it was head spinning as these things go.

In this case the banks are making money but they are ripping off other huge investors who are having the game rigged against them. This is why people on Wall Street are actually pretty appalled by this one.

I dunno, maybe it will be another smoke-and-mirror show with nothing happening but it certainly is yet another sign of profound problems with the financial markets and sooner or later something will give and the house of cards will come tumbling down and it will not be pretty.

It is important to restore some faith in the markets and I hope someone who can do something about this recognizes that.

[grude]

I believe the public in the US is becoming burned out at wall street rage, justified or not.

I doubt the story will stir much public interest.

[Simplicio]

I think public outrage over Tom and Katie’s divorce will finally force banking reform.